Romeo&Juliet - Episode 2 - The Most Iconic Lines In All Of Literature! - a podcast by Christy and Garry Shriver

Romeo & Juliet - Episode 2 - The Most Iconic Lines In All Of Literature!

 

Romeo and Juliet episode 2

 

Hi, I’m Christy Shriver and we are here to look at books that have changed the world and have changed us.

 

I’m Garry Shriver and this is the How to Love Lit Podcast.  This is our second week discussing that iconic Shakespearean classic, Romeo and Juliet.  And per usual, we didn’t delve too far into the script in our first episode.  Last week, we talked quite a bit about the mysterious life and death of William Shakespeare.  We introduced the city of Verona, we talked about the difference between Comedy and Tragedy and why this play is halfway between each.  We talked through the prologue, or at least we read it and we discussed the first scene.  The main thematic takeaway we featured was this idea that Shakespeare is deliberating drawing for us two extremely young fairly average teenagers who are going to be forced to rise to the level of the heroic because of circumstances not created by them, and the impetus that pushes them to greatness- if you will- is really- to use a cliché brought to us by Huey Lewis and the News- the power of love.  Am I off course?

 

You are absolutely NOT off course.  That’s it exactly- and where we want to drop into the story this week- because this week we are talking politics- I know that’s not why anyone reads Romeo and Juliet- and we’ll delve deep into love and fate and all the rest next week, but there is something very interesting worth mentioning about politics in this play  and the importance for leaders to be leaders- and for grown-ups to act like grown-ups- because although this is definitely a love story, and I made the case last week that the beating of the human heart comes through every line- from the love sonnet in the prologue to the epilogue at the end- there is also a large emphasis to be noted that is NOT the love between these two main characters, but the rotten and selfish political world they are forced to indwell. And what we see in these two teenagers is a strong desire to simply get OUT of this rottenness that has become Verona= I read one commentator who called it Verona Disease.  So, today, as we jump back in, let’s look at the grown up- world…because honestly, that’s who’s watching this play at the Globe- the grown-ups. 

 

Well, that’s a very good point to think about- in terms of who’s watching this play.  Last week you brought up the fact that many in the audience would be illiterate or the lower classes, but there were also going to be lots of nobility and/or rich people that would be watching this- but one thing both of these groups have in common is that almost ALL of them would have been adults.  Theaters were not the savoriest of environments- in fact they were always being denounced by the church.  Prostitutes were so common that most respectable women who went to the theater wore masks so people wouldn’t know who they were.  Of course, I’m really not totally sure the age ranges of the play attenders, but I would guess that often the youngest people in the theater were likely the boys who were playing the roles of women on stage- and that’s worth mentioning- all the actors were male.  So, just for context here, Juliet would have been played by a very young boy whose voice hadn’t changed yet.  So, they could be young teens dressed as girls, but boys none the less. Oh, and Christy, this is an aside but for the history buffs out there it’s kind of interesting- one scandalous thing that has come to light in recent years, is that many of these young boys who played the parts of girls were actually kidnapped- snapped up on their way to school and kept in human bondage for the purpose of playing these parts.  There is documentation supporting that even Queen Elizabeth herself knew of this practice and had signed commissions ALLOWING theaters to kidnap and force young boys to perform under threat of being beaten. Dr. Bart Van Es is the researcher that uncovered this.  However, having thrown out that tidbit- I will say, Shakespeare is on historical record to being completely against this practice and made certain it was public knowledge that ALL the child actors at the Globe were apprentices and not slaves as was happening at other theaters. 

 

OH my gosh!!! That’s horrible and not the direction I thought you were going.  I was expecting you to say how the audience, for all its financial inequalities would have been around the same demographic in their ages and would have looked at these characters as adults looking at children.

 

Well, there is that too.  I did get off tangent. And I know you were wanting me to tell you my thoughts in terms of the politics of the play from maybe a historical or a psychological bent but that aside is interesting-- one thing that stands out to me in the prologue especially but also throughout the rest of Act 1- is the line “Where civil blood makes civil hands unclean”. It’s obviously a pun that would stand out to a history teacher.   Civil has two meanings the one that has to do with citizens or relating to the legal system, but it also means courteous and polite- this polite blood, these polite hands are unclean- and the words have a political side to them- their politics isn’t very clean to me.- and this comes across almost sarcastically to me.  What is never explained in this play is to what these factions are all about- and so I assume either it doesn’t matter- or the audience would know what they are.  I assume, as with any society- including the American political scene as well as the British- and I’m sure this is true everywhere- is that civil society ends up breaking into factions.  If you remember your American history- George Washington warned about factions- and of course even today, they are the bane of our political system.  But we’re not alone.  There of course were the obvious factions in the Elizabethan era between the Catholics and the Protestants- but also even within Elizabeth’s court and Privy council there were factions.  What we see here illustrated in Veronan society is typical of every “civil” if I may use Shakespeare’s sarcastic expression- society on earth- we are all given to factions- everyone has taken sides- either by virtue of birth or they just chose sides- it’s all about power- and over the course of time- these sorts of things have a tendency to escalate and get out of control until eventually someone or many someones get hurt.   Verona illustrates why the rule of law is so important- why mobs or people who take the law into their own hands are so dangerous.  In a world that is functioning properly, every member of a civil society obeys the law, or the agreed upon rules that will govern how people conduct themselves- even if they are on opposite sides of issues, and even if these issues are emotional in nature- and make people very angry.  When a society is functioning properly, the law is overseen by a rational but humane impartial steward of it- who keeps the naturally forming factions in check.  And in a healthy society- the leaders of each faction are interested in preserving peace and do their part to reign in their side.   Here we see lapses in leadership and good government from all sides from the very beginning.  For one thing, all these young adults have nothing to do- they are just roaming the streets- THRICE they have disturbed the quiet of Verona’s streets- to loosely quote the prince.  Why haven’t these community leaders created a world for young men to be actively engaged in productive life? Idleness has been a chief sower of problems = always.  But the prince here is also a problem.  Look at how the Prince handles the fighting- he’s arbitrary and enforces no real consequences.  Three times he’s busted them, And what is his reaction to this?- the prince threatens to kill them and then calls the fathers of the two rival factions to his house to discuss the fued.  He went from nothing to death.  This prince is not wise.  There have been no actual consequences for the gentlemen in question.  They are spoiled- it’s like those parents that are always yelling at their kids but never disciplining them. His leadership is, at the very least, reactive and not PRO-active. And we see in the next acts that the fathers of these families aren’t interested in straightening this out either.

 

And this is exactly the when when drop into Act 1- Scene 2- after this pointless brawl in the street.  But before we do, let me introduce the families- when I taught this play, and I haven’t actually for a long time, but when I did, we were always struggling with keeping the characters straight- who’s in which family.  I remembered it like this Juliet is a Capulet- and all the T names (meaning Tybalt) are on her side.  Romeo is a Mongegue- and the names that end in o are in his family.  Like Benvolio- of course this doesn’t work perfectly because Mercutio is related to the king, but he is a friend of Romeo’s. 

 

After our arbitrary but somewhat exciting brawl- Scene 2- shifts away from the outer politics you’re talking about and goes back to what appears to be the love theme but actually is nothing more than politics either.  It also is a fun insight into how Shakespeare does try to have something for everyone- the first scene is really action oriented and vulgar in language- ending in a serious tone- but the second scene and third scenes have a lot in them that is light and fun in a different way.   Here in scene 2 of Act 1 we see Mr. Capulet being approached by this old guy Paris who wants to marry Juliet- which is gross and seems to even gross out Mr. Capulet- let’s read those lines.- you read the part of Capulet, I’ll read old Paris  – page 25

 

So, he doesn’t say no out right- he just tells him to Woo her- good luck with that. 

 

I know, right, but he also tells him the same thing Benvolio told Romeo- look around Paris- you might find another girl to love.  But another point to make is that We also learn that Rosaline- the girl Romeo is pining over- is a first cousin of Juliet- that would make her on team Capulet- although no one seems to care about her- I wonder if she’s like the poor cousin or something- I’m making stuff up now.  Anyway,  Mr. Capulet is having a party, a masquerade ball- of course- such a famous and iconic scene – it’s a set up for Paris to woo- Juliet or find another chick- and for Romeo and Benvolio to crash a controversial party.  Benvolio is determined to find a prettier chick for his buddy and this seems to be an opportunity.  You may notice there’s no talk of anyone being in real danger of death by attending, which perhaps tells you these people were only enemies when it was convenient, but who knows.  What we do know is that these two young men set out to prowl at this particular event.

 

When we get into Scene 3 of Act 1- we see that Shakespeare makes it a point to again reinterate Juliet’s age. This is not something that even an audience member throwing fruit at the set or something would miss- in fact, maybe it would cause them them to throw fruit- it’s a bit out of bounds.  And yes, that was not uncommon in elizabethen theater.  These theaters resembled more basketball arenas than modern day theater houses.  But I don’t think even in the ruckus you can miss all the hoopla on Juliet’s age.

 

No- you definitely cannot- I can just see Paris asking for 13 year old Juliet and an audience member targeting him with a rotten apple- yelling whatever Elizabethan’s yelled for what we say -TOOO MUCH!!  But then again I speculate, we really don’t know much about how these performances were acted out.

 

 And speaking of characters you could throw a fruit at- here in this scene we meet the lovely Juliet Capulet along with her two caregivers- her mom and her nurse.  Let me introduce a literary term here- the term is -foil.  Because Shakespeare loves making foils.  Now foil is not the mathematical order of operations  (although I’m told it’s that too)– it means characters that are obviously really created to be opposites in a fairly obvious way.  We’ve already seen this once- Benvolio and Tybalt are foils,- ben being the good buy- Tybalt being the bad one-  but here we’re going to see two more- the mom and the nurse.  Both of these women love Juliet, but they are total opposites- one is cultured and beautiful- one is crude and bawdy. 

 

I think there is one more important way when we see these two women- one of them has aN intimate relationship with Juliet-and that’s actually the nurse- and then there’s the mother who is quite cold- and seems not to know her daughter much or at least doesn’t pity her- although we must assume she does love her daughter. 

 

I will say, that Shakespeare makes this nurse very ugly but very loveable all at the same time…and remember she would have been played by a man.  Think about this character- the langusge of the play tells us, She only has four teeth and quite a large women- then with that image in your mind she starts talking about putting wormwood on her breast to wean Juliet- with all the ridiculous opportunity for hand gestures- I can see this might be another opportunity for fruit to come a flyin’ (at least that’s how I envision it- whether it happened that way or not, I have no idea- we get to imagine these things for ourselves), Anyway the  fact is- the nurse makes a couple of remarks in her monologue about Juliet’s sexuality that seem a bit out of bounds and perhaps is supposed to be funny, but also. Very real brutal reminder through the mom’s and the nurse’s conversation  that women in those days really did view themselves besides being viewed by others as sexual merchandise- and it was all about the good deal- a political transaction if you will.  Ugh. Juliet emphatically says she doesn’t want to get married- to which her mother says, well, I was married at your age- so so much for that bit of empathy.  The nurse tries to tell her he’s good looking “He’s a man of wax”- but obviously it all comes down to the nice little metaphor the mom makes when she says “This precious book of love, this unbound lover to beautify him only lacks a cover”…and then she says “That book in many’s eyes doth share the glory that in gold clasps locks in the golden story…” so there you go- it’s all about the gold.  The argument could be made that Shakespeare is drawing out this point, but I don’t know- that might be my arrogance of the present kicking in.

 

Of course, from there we fly right into Scene 4 with the boys marching to the party, excited about the potential hook ups- there’s a trend that hasn’t change over 400 years.  There’s Mercutio (who’s the Prince’s cousin and Romeo’s best friend); there’s Benvolio, who’ve we already met and there’s our hero- Romeo.

 

And Romeo, of course, is still pining- “Under love’s heavy burden I do sink.”  His friends are committed to assuring him he can move on with all kinds of funny lines and a very strange monologue by Mercutio talking about this little fairy called Queen Mab, a character, it seems Shakespeare made up or ripped from local folklore, but Queen Mab has showed up again and again in literature ever since.  Apparently, she’s a fairy the size of gem stone who rides around in a hazelnut chariot doing all kinds of mischief- one thing she does is drive through lovers brains making them dream of love.  Mercutio talks about dreams saying they are the children of an idle brain begot of nothing but vain fantasy which is as thin of substance as the air, and more inconstant than the wind…- an interesting turn of phrase really…and points us to another important motif in this play- and remember motifs are things that come up over and over- and dreams are one of those things.  Juliet has just gotten through saying she does NOT dream of getting married.  And now Mercutio tells us what lots of people enjoy dreaming about. 

 

I find it interesting that Shakespeare here is right in line with much later psycho-analytic ideas on dreams.  In his speech the dreams are like the crazy version of what each person wants- the soldier dreaming of cutting foreign throats, the lawyer dreaming of money- among other things- that was a funny one-

 

Indeed- well in Scene 5 we finally get to the big party.  It’s a masquerade ball, but Tybalt recognizes Romeo and wants to kill him for being a montague. 

 

WE see Mr. Capulet, and here we don’t know if he’s just a permissive parent or if really the feud isn’t a big deal- but he tells Tybalt to stand down.  He’s going to say that Romeo, by all accounts is a nice guy.  He doesn’t ask him to leave and seems to want him to stay and enjoy the party. 

 

Well, of course all that is true, but what we love about this scene is the back and forth between Romeo and Juliet.  Romeo sees her and is enchanted – we hsve to read this part- read lines 45-55 of Act 1 Scene 5

 

That’s before Tybalt sees him.- but after Tybalt leaves we get the famous lies.  .

 

- let’s read this most famous exchange

Read page 53- lines 94-102

 

One thing you can’t help but notice is all the religious language here.

 

 Yes- and there has been all kinds of discussion as to what that means- for starters  Maybe- one thing to notice here- and I don’t say this very often of Shakespeare because at this time period it’s not often true- but Shakespeare is creating in the character of Juliet a very strong woman- it’s unusual for the 1580s and it’s absolutely impossible to imagine a girl being so progressive at this time period at age 13.  Listen to her- she’s 13 and look how she commands this situstion.  She matches Romeo line by line in her wit.  She compliments how he kisses.  She’s commanding- not typical of thirteen year old grils- even today.  I can tell you right now, having been one and raised two- typical teenage girl behavior would be way less coy and likely would end with the girl running away, even if you did find him cute. 

 

It’s an interesting point to notice because we are going to see this again in the balcony scene- except even stronger.  But here’s the larger point-.  Are we to understand that this love is different than all this hoopla he’s made over Rosaline?  What makes this one different?  Is it somehow holy- or pure?

Remember- love is the deeper theme- but it is overlayed with politics, ambition, factions, greed- these two children don’t care about any of that-it is on purpose that Shakespeare talks of shrines and pilgrims.  Pilgrims travel to holy places- pure places. 

 

This certainly isn’t the view of marriage typical of Shakespeare’s day.  It’s probably not the perspective on love- all the other characters are chauvinistic in everything they say about women- even Romeo had been very sexualized in his aggression towards Rosaline.

 

Precisely-  It’s even worth noticing that in every single scene up to this point there has been sexual humor- low brow- guttural- suggestive and perhaps demeaning towards women as guttural humor tends to be- but here- when we get here- that fades away-here- divinity is invoked.   Of course, it’s silly coming from their adolescent mouths- all this talk of saints and lips and prayer- but there is a purity and an innocence here that is also being invoked.  - perhaps as a reprieve from the selfish ambitious adults in the rest of their world.  Perhaps from the degradation portrayed everywhere else (although that may be my modern feminist take)- we can all speculate- as we should all speculate as to why he does it this way- it’s sweet- and enticing- and people have come to love this scene over the years.  They are not frightened by each other.  They are not frightened by the love they seem to see in each other’s eyes- they run to it.  They don’t care who the other person is.  Wht their political affiliation is.  What their social status is.  They are compelled by something, and Romeo is obviously compelled in a very different way he was compelled by the sexuality of Rosaline. 

 

Not just Romeo- Juliet is all in as well.  She gets her nurse to track down Romeo’s bio after he’s gone and finds out he’s a montague from which we get the lines- “My only love sprung from my only hate!...and then again….prodigious birth of love it is to me that I must love a loathed enemy.”

 

She knows- un-ambitious love has no place in her world.

 

But don’t we see that everywhere where status is a part of life’s meaning? I have to be honest, it’s not much of a factor in our middle class community in the  Bartlett suburb, but not even is Memphis society immune to these love/politics realities.  Of course on the flip side- don’t we also want to believe we can find that divine kind of romantic love? Meg Ryan and Reese Whitherspoon seemed to have made a living capitalizing on it? Lots of us are or have been- like Romeo, running around with a dream in our head looking for the right face to put in it.

 

 I should say, in defense of Shakespeare, he is not one to write Rom-coms (which is what Americans call Romantic comedies, btw).  This would make a funny tangent, what would be the Rom-Com version of this play- for sure it would have had to have Rosaline hooking up with Benvolio or Paris or something- that’s a tangent.

 

The point to notice- getting back to the actual play- We see on one hand some religious-like ideal Shakepeare is challenging us to strive for….in one sense- but then again….remember…from the prologue he’s forshadowed the fate of these kinds of dreams…and not just in the prologue.  We’ll look at fate in a different podcast, but there nothing but the most obvious foreshadowing all over this play- it’s so obvious we must see something of a connection towards meaning.

 

Well- in this case, as we leave Act 1 and transition into Act 2- we see more of their dream, their love.  Their fate will hit its high point in this Second Act- again one of the things, those less scholarly minded of us- remember from high school- the balcony scene!!!

 

Shall we take a sneak peak into Act 2?

 

I think we need to if we’re going to finish this play in four episodes.  In Act 2 we start with another sonnet- although I don’t find this one near as interesting.  Of course- it’s 14 lines- again we see the language of love thrown together with the language of death- “Now old desire doth in his deathbed lie, and young affection gapes to be his heir”- literally he means Romeo’s old love for Rosaline has died- but we know, because he already told us in the last sonnet- that there’s actual physical death coming along.  What I find interesting in this second act and maybe this is why this act appeals to so many is that we are looking at the secrecy associated with love.  Like you mentioned before- there is this link of love and intimacy- and that, by definition, involves secret keeping.  You aren’t special if there’s nothing private between you.  But of course, their case is especially secret. They can’t meet because it’s forbidden so as the sonnet concludes it says, “So passion lends them power, time means, to meet temp’ering extremities with extreme sweet.” 

 

I like that of idea of power being introduced- because I’ve tried to make the argument that there is a lot of struggle with power in this play.  But here what happens, the passion lends THEM power.  And of course, the excitement of forbidden love is in there as well.  Love for Shakespeare, though, is not the sweet teenager Disney variety.  There is passion; clearly there’s power, and what we saw in the last scene- but the passion and power lead to extremes- which of course involves not just extreme love- this exaggerated thing we’re looking st, but the other extreme- violence and death.

 

I agree.  I think it’s difficult to really define what Shakespeare’s saying about love- although, as you might expect, I’m going to give it a try- although not today.

 

Today, we’re looking at power dynamics- and I want to conclude our discussion with a couple of more interesting power thoughts to think on as we head out for the week.  Scene 1 of Act 2 is definitely for those boys who were freaked out by all that emotional stuff at the ball and we get back into the ridiculous sexual language.-

 

Three friends, one bails on the other two at a party and the two left over are making fun of the one who can’t talk the girl into having sex with him but who has run away.  They have ZERO sympathy for their dear friend, as of course they wouldn’t.  Mercutio’s lines are particular sexualized, he says this, “If love be blind, love cannot hit the mark.  Now will he sit under a medlar tree and wish his mistress were that kind of fruit as maids call medlars when they laugh alone. O Romeo, that she were, O, that she were an open arse and thou a popering pear!”

 

This is extremely sexual- the medlar fruit is a sexual reference; you can Google if you’re interested.  But here’s my point- Romeo has bailed on this world…and off he goes to find quite the strong woman really.  Garry, let’s finish by reading this most famous of Shakepeare’s speech.  We’ll resume talking about Juliet’s response next week- but Romeo has run away, he sees the light in Juliet’s window, overhears her confession of love to him and jumps out to present himself…

 

Read page 65-68.

 

Well, there’s lots to talk about that’s interesting here, and we’ll start here again next week.  But it is Juliet’s lines that bring us to our concluding thought for this day- These- if they are nothing- are a beautiful expression of what it means to be young and in love.  It is physical, it is exaggerated, it is full of bling, it is definant, slightly chaotic and it is most definitely impulsive!!!!  How could that possibly go wrong? 

 

Well, for most of us, it most certainly has- to some degree..and Next week, we delve deeper into the hasty world of secret love-

 

and see where “passion lends them power, time means, to meet, tempering extremities with extreme sweet.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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