Romeo&Juliet - Episode 4 - The Power Of Impulse And Really Bad Ideas! - a podcast by Christy and Garry Shriver

Romeo & Juliet - Episode 4 - The Power Of Impulse And Really Bad Ideas!

Romeo and Juliet Episode 4

 

Hi, I’m Christy Shriver- and we’re here to discuss books that changed the world and changed us.  Don’t forget, if you enjoy our work, please give us a rating, a comment- both – with your podcast provider-also share an episode with a friend- that’s the only way we grow.

 

I’m Garry Shriver- and this is the How to Love Lit Podcast.  This is our fourth episode exploring the Shakespearean world of Romeo and Juliet.  Week 1 we met our author, William Shakespeare and introduced the play through the iconic sonnet that sets the scene.  Week 2- we explored the political world of Verona, met our feuding families and introduced the star-crossed lovers- Romeo and Juliet -ending by reading the beautiful words spoken to and from that glorious balcony where lovers to this day come as pilgrims.  However, last week, Christy tried to destroy all of our fantasies of love at first sight and passionate adolescence by introducing an alternate reading of this famous passage and presenting a theory that Juliet is a young adult exerting power on the universe and changing a fate prescribed to her by her parents.  It’s not that she’s not in love with Romeo, or so you propose- it’s that love is secondary to self-preservation or at least aligned with it- Romeo is an extremely good-looking young man- emphasis being that he’s her own age, and she’s facing  the prospect of a life with an old geezer.  However, we didn’t end there.  We ended our discussion; with life in Verona taking a darker turn:  a street fight has gotten out of control and two people are dead: Mercutio and Tybalt.  Romeo and Juliet, although technically married, have a huge problem- Romeo is the murderer.  The Prince in an effort to be merciful has banished him from Verona, and he is basically on the run.  We have left our story with our heroine in a tizzy.  She, waivers perhaps for a minute but quickly decides she’s staying with Romeo.  The nurse has promised to bring him up to her room for one last night of passion, if you want to put it that way, and we are now waiting to see what happens next.

 

That’s where we are- ready to pick up our story in the flat middle, slightly after the climax with the murders- there is so much to say.  In fact, so much so, that I am overwhelmed really, I could talk and talk (although I promise I wont) and still feel like we’re not doing justice to the text.  I can’t tell you how much research has been done on this play, hundreds of years of analysis.. but just to give you a taste, I thought I’d bring up some fun facts.  So one of the things that Shakespeare really makes a big deal about in this play, and we’ve made a big deal about it too, is the fact that Juliet is so young- between 13-14.  Well, you know who else is young- Shakespeare when he wrote this play. This is an early play for him, and, this of course, is just me totally running my mouth- but I think a lot of the funsie stuff he does in this play is just to show off that he’s just that good.  By the time Hamlet comes around, I think that debate has come and gone. But here’s what I mean by showing off- so back to Juliet’s age- obviously
Shakespeare is making her so young that no one can miss that she’s too young to get married.  Capulet even tells Paris that “too soon mard are those so early made.”  But Shakespeare plays around with the number 14 for the rest of the play- as number symbolism was really popular at this time.  Juliet’s name has 13 letters.  She’s the 13th character to enter the stage.  Romeo refers to her by name 14 times.  There are 13 proper nouns on the Capulet’s list to the ball.  14 males.  Sonnets obviously have 14 lines.  Romeo’s kiss to Juliet is between the 13th and 14th line he speaks to her!!  The play begins on July 14th, a fortnight and three daysd before Lammas Day and concludes 13 days short of Juliet’s birthday.  There is a major event in the play that occurs every 14 hours- beginning with Romeo meeting Juliet, then 14 hours later are married…fourteen hours fourteen hours all the way til their death.

 

Now, I don’t know what’s weirder-that Shakespeare did that or that someone took the time to figure all that out.  But what does it mean?

 

I know, and yet I have no idea.  I’ve read articles saying it reflects an indictment her age, others say it reflects a sonnet form and an emphasis on true love- I think it’s Shakespeare showing off the fact that he can do the number thing with the best of him.  Who knows for sure, but one think I really do think is that  Shakespeare clearly loved Juliet and makes her the heart of the play…and I find that sweet.  I like Juliet too, and I don’t like a lot of Shakespeare’s women.  I definitely don’t like Ophelia from Hamlet nor either of the Julius Caesar ladies.  They’re weak, but Juliet is not- and that brings us to our starting point because when we open up in Scene 3- we don’t find a strong Juliet- we find a dweeby- noodle-brained Romeo.  He’s hiding in Friar Lawrence’s cell where Friar Lawrence is trying to explain to him that banishment isn’t all that bad- that he can stay there for a bit until the whole marriage thing comes out and they can get things sorted.

 

Of course there’s more foreshadowing with the lines, “Romeo, affliction is enamored in thy parts, and thou art wedded to calamity.”

 

I will say Romeo is a bit dramatic with the whole, I’m going to pull out my sword and kill myself routine, “Tell me, Friar, in what vile part of this anatomy doth my name lodge?  Tell me, that I may sack the hateful mansion.” 

 

True, but the priest knew how to cheer him up.  “Happiness courts thee in her best array, but like a mishaved and sullen wench thou pout’st upon thy fortune and thy love.  Take heed, take heed, for such die miserable.  Go, get thee to they love, as was decreed.  Ascend chamber; hence and comfort her.  but look, thou stay not till the watch be set, for then thou canst not pass to Mantua.”

 

Which btw- in case anyone was wondering, Mantua is a only 20 miles away- not disasterous definitely  Not an infinite distance.  But you couldn’t tell by Romeo’s reaction.  It does seem though that a quick stop at Juliet’s is enough to help him get over the edge of his despair.  He replies after all the whining- “How well my comfort is revived by this!”  He seems to be cheered up.

 

Yes- which is more than we can say for darling Juliet.  She is really in trouble- and ironically- dramatic irony, btw- the audience knows it and she doesn’t .  Her father has had a sudden change of mind- not only is he going to force his daughter to marry Paris against her will (which he wasn’t going to do, but he’s going to do marry her off on Thursday- since, according to him, doing it Wednesday would be rushing things.

 

True- I’d say Juliet is unawares- when we see Juliet she is in the throws of love.  This is the scene EVERYONE remembers from watching the movie in school…the nudity!!!  And that was back when that was not done!! 

 

You’re right.  I remember showing this movie in class when we had a VCR and I was very strategic about fastfowarding through the right places.  It was quite scandalous.

 

  This scene is such a contrast- you have the passionate good-bye of the lovers and then this abrupt cruelty of the dad.

 

True- but before we get into the daddy issues- let’s talk birds – they are so important here.  The lark is the bird that sings in the morning; apparently and the nightingale is the bird that sings at night.  Romeo and Juliet hear birds and Juliet is bemoaning the fact that Romeo has to go.  I will say, again we see that Juliet has to be the practical one.  Romeo does all this, “Let me be taken; let me be put to death.”  Let’s read it. 

 

PAGE 151- ACT 3 Scene 5.

 

Again we see light- light- dark dark..I’ve talked about all the contrasts in this play- starting with light and dark, but then life and death but I want to take a minute to think about just a little bit more.  There are so so many big contrasts in this play- think about it Romeo/Juliet- montague/capulet- male/female- sexual violence/ sexual affection- hate-love, age- youth- tragedy- comedy- reality-dreams- public-private- This is a play of foils and extremes – think the characters- there so many constrasts- and pairs- Benvolio versus Tybalt- Juliet has two moms- Juliet has two lovers-  the contrasts are so start and we’re getting ready to hit a big one.  There really is something to notice here- think back to the prologue

 

“Two households both alike in dignity…then later it says- from forth the fatal loins of these TWO foes a PAIR of star-cross’d lovers take their life…I want to comment on it later, but it’s something to think about as we move forward towards the fast approaching end of the play. And the doubles are not just in the contrasts, they are also in the actual words- he repeats himself all the time.

 

Why so many doubles- why so many twos- why so many contrasts? 

 

We see it in the famous last words here- in fact, Let’s read the last words Romeo and Juliet say to each other- they are sad for their own sake- Romeo has climbed down the rope and she’s looking down from the balcony- more foreshadowing-

“O God, I have an ill-divining soul!  Methinks I see thee, now thou art so low, as one dead in the bottom of a tomb.  Either my eyesight fails or thou lookest pale.”

 

And trust me, love, in my eyes so do you; dry blood drinks our blood.  Adieu, Adieu!

 

The first words Juliet says after Romeo leaves is in pairs, “O fortune, fortune! All men call thee fickle. If thou art fickle, what dost thou with him that is renowned for faith?  Be fickle, fortune.  For then, I hope, thou wilt not keep him long, but send him back.”  She’s talking about Fortune bringing Romeo back to her- but there’s a lot of duality here-look at all the alliteration and repetition…in fact- and this is getting into the nerdy scholarship again- but a Shakspearean expert by the name of Robert Watson ran the numbers- and in Romeo and Juliet 1% of the words are actually pairs like this.  These double words are all over the place- and beyond that -we have all the oxymorons and constrasts- no other Shakespearean play has as many doubles and constrasts as this one—but like I said it’s something to notice and think about when we get to the end, maybe we can make some sense to it.  When we get to this part- we’re going to see not just double words- and double meaning- we are going to watch Juliet decide to live a double life…

 

- let’s read these lines that change the story for Juliet…I’ll read Juliet then you read the mom-

 

While we read notice that Juliet deliberately deceives her mom to think she’s talking about Tybalt- but it’s double-talk- it’s ironic…it’s all fake.  It’s all duplicitous- but it’s mysterious to wonder why Shakespeare writes it quite this way.  Something to thing about- I wonder wonder!!

 

Shall we read! Shall we Read.

 

Act 3, Scene five- Act 3 Scene 5!-I’ll read Juliet’s line, if you’ll read the mother.

 

Read 153

When the dad comes in- it goes from bad to worse

 

READ 153-161

 

This language is abusive.  It’s extreme and for the most part unjustified.  What has changed that merits such an about face?  Why such haste?  Why such impulsivity?  That makes a man talk to his young daughter with such rage and violence?   Romeo and Juliet are talking stars and fate, but we see here it’s character, not fate that is pushing people to extremes.  You talked in the beginning about adults not acting like adults and that being the whole problem with this community- I think the argument could be made that poor impulsive control, something that is considered a childish trait- is the villain here.  The dad has abandoned his daughter; the mother has abandoned her daughter; and finally, even the nurse has abandoned Juliet.  Romeo has waltzed off and left her.  Juliet is totally alone at this point in the play.  I can’t think of a way for a young teenage girl to be more isolated than this.

 

I like the way you phrased that- because that’s another thing about this play that is unusual.  There is no villain- not really. In literature we think of conflicts being man versus man- like an external conflict- but we’ve killed off Tybalt- the only human antagonist- then sometimes we think of man versus himself- and sure- Romeo is a little extreme and I would argue perhaps weak and hapless at times, I’m not sure I’d want my daughters getting involved with Romeo, but he’s definitely not villain- .  Who is the villain here?  Is it fate itself?  The prologue hints that it’s fate- but it also hints that the antagonist is something else.  There’s always been one line in the prologue that has always bothered me (and I know I keep referring back to the prologue- but if you listen to us long enough- or if you have ever heard our very first episode on the Scarlet Letter where I talk a whole lot about this- I contend that the author gives away the story in the first sentence or two of the play- and in this case- it’s undoubtedly true- but the final line of the sonnet is this “Which, but their children’s end, naught could remove. Is now the two hours traffic of our stage..the which if you with patient ears attend, what here shall miss, our toil shall strive to mend.”  What has bothered me about those lines is the idea of being able to sit through this play in 2 hours- that’s absolutely not possible.  We can barely talk aobut it over the course of a month.  Now, I know Elizabethan people were way more auditory than we are and probably talked faster with no intermissions- but in what world can you perform a Shakesperean plan in 2 hours?  It’s never made since until I heard this one guy say, it makes sense if you think about it metaphorically instead of literally- this is a play about rushing thorugh things- rushing through decisions- it’s about impulsivity. 

 

Well, Romeo and Juliet are rash and impulsive but that’s understandable, really. They’re teenagers.  They are beautiful, in love, in lust- whatever you want to call it.  It makes sense and doesn’t hurt anyway.  In fact, who are we to judge passion when it’s an expression of youthful  idealism- that’s one of the great things about being young.  You aren’t jaded yet.

 

True- but what is Friar Lawrence doing rushing to marry them?  Then Capulet is rushing to marry off his daughter.  Then Friar Lawrence coming up with these strange and impulsive solutions.  With each impulsive decision comes an escalation- and things are going to escalate and escalate. In Act 4, Juliet reveals to the Friar that she is being forced to marry Paris.   She’s very emphatic that that is not going to happen, ‘O bid me leap, rather than marry Paris, from off the battlements of any tower, or walk in thievish ways, or bid me lurk where serpents are; chain me with roaring bears, or hide me nightly in a chartle house, o’re covered quite with dead men’s rattling bones, with reeky shanks and yellow chopless skulls; or bid me go into a new-made grave and hide me with a dead man in his tomb- things that to hear them told, have made me tremble- and I will do it without fear or doubt to live an unstained wife to my sweet love.”

 

I’d say she’s made her point- my favorite is “chain me with roaring bears”.

 

Do you like that better than the yellow chopless skulls she wants to be covered in? 

 

I get the impression she doesn’t like Paris.  And of course the Friar comes up with the strange plan to drink poison that will make her look dead for 24 hours. 

 

“Read 173 lines 95-120

 

 

These lines are so ridiculous and yet so tragic to me, first of all he says, unless because you’re a woman and you’re not brave enough- he’s the coward here.  Why doesn’t he just take her to Mantua heself.  But instead she agrees- Juliet tragically says, “Love give me strength, and strength shall help afford.  Farewell, dear father!”  She trusts, and from my perspective, she is betrayed by them all…I’m even going to say a little bit by Romeo, although I’m fearful to hate on him too much.  I wish he had stayed back or at least done a little better by her, but he trusted Friar Lawrence too.  Juliet leave the presence of the friar, goes back home, carries on these phony conversations with her parents telling everyone exactly what they want to hear then she goes into her room all by herself and drinks poison. 

 

 I cannot imagine putting any more pressure on a little girl- never mind that she’s a teenager child just being introduced to love for the first time, something that would be overwhelming and exhausting for anyone at any time-Shakespeare doesn’t let up on her- Tybalt killed, Sex with Romeo- getting screamed at by her parents, running to the priest to be confronted by a man who thinks he’s marrying her in a couple of days, being given poison to drink by a man who she trusts- then going back to face everyone...  When she finally perceives that she must act alone she faces her own fears braver than most adults could.  What a soliloquy we are about to hear as Shakespeare takes us into Juliet’s mind….

 

Let me set this up- for those who don’t remember the details of the story- so, Friar Lawrence’s plan is that she drink this potion and allow herself to be buried alive into this vault or catabombs- the kind they have in Italy or New Orleans if you’ve seen the vampire show The Originals- it’s where all the witches congregate.  So, the plan is she’s going to wake up in the vault with all of her dead relatives trusting that Friar Lawrence is going to tell someone who’s going to tell Romeo who’s going to show up and get her.  That’s the plan she’s going over in her mind.

 

It’s terrifying. 

 

Well here it is…Read soliloquy…page 183

 

I’d say that fails the say outloud test- if you say that out loud- you might talk yourself out of it.   

 

And yet, she drinks.  She’s desperate; she takes a risk; it’s the only hope she sees.  But of course, we, the audience are forced to ask the question- are you doing the thing?  Is all this double-talk, double speech, all this rushing, all this impulsiveness…is it the right thing?

 

 

 Well, we can’t know the answer to that question by the end of Act 4. As you might expect from such a concoted plan—the end of Act 4 is total chaos. So, far all is going to plan-when the family finds Juliet they all regret what they did.  The nurse, her mom, her dad…lots of repetition…look look…help..help..she’s dead…she’s dead…o woeful..o woeful, woeful day…to murder to murder our somenity…oh child oh child…and then we saw another weird contrast- as Capulet pronounces….All things that we ordained festival turn from their office to black funeral; our instruments to melancholy bells, our wedding cheer to a sad burial feast, our solemn hymns to sullen dirges change, our bridal flowers serve for a buried corpse, and all things change them to the contrary.

 

Well, of course, Friar Lawrence who knows all this is a fake says all these very comforting but cliched lines…” Heaven and yourself had part in his fair maid; now heaven hath all, and all the better is it for the maid… sort of like, well, she’s in a better place.  She’s fine. 

 

Friar Lawrence…that guy…I do think he’s  not a bad person, he’s just so dang irresponsible, although he doesn’t practice what he preaches..I do think he does give some great advice way back in Act 2- when he says, Therefore, love moderately, long love doth so, too swift arrives as tardy as too slow.  And then again when he says, “Wisely and slow; they stumble that run fast.”  

 

And next week, we will see more running, nothing moderate, lots of stumbling as we get to the tragic conclusion of everyone’s favorite doomsday love story!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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