How to Hire the Right ISA for Your Real Estate Business - a podcast by Nate Joens, Robby Trefethren, Erik Hatch

Nate: [00:00:00] Well welcome everybody to the Structurely and Hatch Coaching webinar. We're excited to be here. Hopefully you guys are excited to be here on a Friday afternoon as well. Here to talk about how to hire the right ISA for your real estate business.

Nate: [00:00:31] My name is Nate Jones. I'm the CEO co-founder of Structurely we're an artificial intelligence inside sales agent company. We love to be working closely with with the hatch coaching and Hatch Realty team which we've got to be the best on that team. I would say with us today Robby T and Erik had taken away guys.

Robby: [00:00:53] Awesome. Well yeah I'm really excited today because we're going to get talk about something that's really dear to our hearts. All about hiring the right ISA and what I'm going to do is I actually want to keep attached to Erik first because you're the one who did this right the first time. And our last call you coined the phrase we fumbled our way through it. But you know I'd love for you to really start things off. Erik How the heck do you hire the right ISA for the real estate business.

Erik: [00:01:27] Gosh I wish it was an easy answer and it is not a pride myself. I pride ourselves on being really good at hiring Hatch Realty and Hatch coaching are based out of Fargo North Dakota. Our communities are two hundred thousand people. We will sell 650 ish homes this year we were this last year that number 43 real estate in the country. And I give you those facts and those pieces of data because it's important that you understand that it hasn't always been this way and we've built it now on the backs of ISAs and I've gotten really good at hiring and that's still been the hardest position I've ever had to fill. It's exhausting. It's difficult this year. Question right now from Ryan asking how do you keep somebody in that department long term like. There's just so much meat and potatoes here so let me dive into your question with more specificity Robby. I want to take you back to 2013. I saw some big wigs some people who really knew what they were doing that they wanted. They had ISAs in their world and even the Red Book the millionaire real estate agent book talks about people like call centers and outbound callers and realistically we had a plethora of business. And with that plethora of business we were letting in a lot of leads go unattended to. We didn't get back to them at all or if we did it was like a 24 hour period. And so here it was the hiring trend, write this down. Really important hire your friend. After 20 minute interview and then I want you to take that piece of paper and tear it up and just disregard everything I just told you because that was how I hired the first one and I got lucky. I had somebody who just answered and responded to leads and we actually got lucky. He had no desire to be like this big producer and agents loved being kind of behind the scenes prides himself on being a number two. And it was a really good culture fit. He was fine at the job but he was a really good culture fit. What happened is we then got introduced to a guy named Robby and Robby was in his young 20s. A year or so out of college was working on political campaigns and Josh our first ISA vouch for him when he said Rob is a really good dude and so I brought in Robby to interview him and I at this point I started slowing down and the interview process I used to just hire people because I liked them because they were great. But I started to figure out who we were and who we didn't know our role. We now developed a nine step hiring process that I'm happy to go over here in a moment. But in this ISA world one I brought in Robby here is the biggest difference maker of him and anybody else is he was hungry like notch not just hungry saying I want to make 100 thousand dollars or whatever it is. Robby had a chip on his shoulder. He had some people to prove he had a life that he wanted. And the only way to get through that and to that was ridiculously hard work. And so I'll be honest Robby gave a very mediocre interview. He dropped the f bomb three times in the interview and yeah maybe was more I don't know.

Erik: [00:04:55] He he started off as very nervous and fidgety and like doesn't like people at the first place. So he's like all super awkward. And then as he got going and as he got talking I started to see his heart and his passion and that's what I liked what he was and he was so rough around the edges and I just know that he he he was hungry.

Erik: [00:05:16] And Josh rush for him that he will be a culture fit. So for me that was enough to take a chance on him. And a lot of times those of us who are looking to hire ISAs are looking for the perfect DISC profile. And we're looking for the perfect set up and we're looking for the person that's going to crush it for us and we're looking for. We're looking for somebody who is maybe more qualified than we are sometimes at that point in our game when we were developing we needed somebody to answer the phones. And that's sort of a hire Josh we need somebody to respond believes and that's why we hired Josh and that wasn't even that he said the right things. He just he just answered the phone and call people and said How can I help you what are you looking for. Right. And then as we've gotten better we've now refined it and refined it and defined it. And at this point now this is the end of my long winded answer here at this point. Now we have decided that hiring an ISAs is crucial in our business. And so we brought on people we have got a 50 percent success rate where the rest of our company nearly doubles that with our success rate for retaining people for an extended period of time and then they either say we're only batting 500.

Erik: [00:06:29] I mean it's pretty difficult to find great talent at this point because our standards have continued to rise. But if you don't have an ISA Don't start your standard right here because you're in trouble my friends start here because this is really where you're at. If you're if you're new in that business you've got to you've got to grow with them. So that's there you go. Ya go ahead.

Nate: [00:06:52] Yeah I mean Robby you have anything to add in terms of like culture fit. I know you guys like you'd like Erik said fumble fumble forward. Did you know that Hatch was the right culture fit for you like during the interview a week after. You still not know it's the culture fit.

Robby: [00:07:10] I hope so yeah. I would say this from my perspective when I was going through the interview process.

Robby: [00:07:19] Most places you sit down and it's very surface level questions. It's going to be what's your past experience like what qualifies you for this job. Right those very surface level answers and although I swore many times in my interview Erik and I also he got to the heart of why was that.

Erik: [00:07:44] That's why you swore Robby I threw you off of what be a typical question that you were already prepared for and that's what brought the real Robby out and so many of us go through a hiring process. You spent 30 minutes talking to somebody and we think this person will be great my world. And that's like going on one date with somebody and married them. It's absurd. I mean like. Unless you're a great catch like Nate's who is single by the way ladies out there watch out.

Nate: [00:08:14] The only reason I'm going to Vegas.

Erik: [00:08:19] But I mean because you probably just want to emphasize knowing what it is and why you Zwart was because we were asking you things that were real life things and not just rehearsed answer business things that had you given a robotic answer.

Robby: [00:08:33] And what that showed to me because yes good question. It was the culture right. It was in that moment because she was willing to go deeper than I've ever gone before in any other type professional setting. I knew that that place was special. But it was different that Erik didn't just care about me coming into making phone calls that he cared about him aligning his vision to match up with mine and helping me go to where I want to go.

Robby: [00:09:03] And that was huge. And that created a buy in that I don't think can or can really be replicated unless you really do care because that's what it was was. Erik was taking a deep interest in me to see if I'd be a good fit. So yeah absolutely an end to hit on your point Erik. It is so crucial that your interviews are not 30 minute interviews. Like you said it's like dating for a week and then asking someone to marry you which sometimes works out. Usually not though. And what we lose we slow things down that way we can take people's mask off because that's probably what you saw happen and we've seen it happen a lot in our interviews as when you slow down and you take some time to dig into people's stories and find out about them. What happens is a mask comes off and they're trying to be in the room with you. And you see their authentic selves and sometimes that includes a couple of bombs so we prepare.

Nate: [00:10:03] Cool can you guys share any specific questions that you guys remember asking or that you that you're starting to ask today in your interviews that really touch more on the culture rather than just the you know how long you know how do you handle an objection. Things like that. Know what are some of those questions or what are some questions that you ask that really touch more of that culture piece.

Erik: [00:10:26] So let let me let me let me go through the nine step process and that's going to I think show how we get there. So if you are taking notes I think this could be a nice value add for you. The first piece is you place the ad and I know that sounds generic but what we found out is that we looked for people in a sales role quite often they've been drawn to what people views are typical realtor and our understanding of ISA is that they are a service based person.

Erik: [00:10:59] Our sales people are too but you know they're the folks who are going to be a little more tenacious in terms of having to be front facing those people and instead we define it as a service piece so inside sales and inside service. I mean that acronyms ISIS so we're not looking for ISIS here. And yet I want people to know and understand that as we place this ad and we as a company called WizeHire higher that's WizeHire and WizeHire is a really great company because it serves as a way to actually put out all of all of these feelers so it goes to indeed monster and everywhere else.

Erik: [00:11:38] The second thing that we do is we get pretty serious about just doing some research on the people so we get their resume. And with WizeHire we actually get a DISC score for us. We think that the DISC the personality profile is about 25 percent of our decision. You know we can narrow it down right away. I believe that the best ISAs are "D" "C"s or "C" "D"s.

Erik: [00:12:05] Those are dominant and detailed they're analytical and thicker skin and they follow systems and there are naturally probably a little bit stronger. I think that the people that could be a little more at risk are people who are high "I". Those are people who love to socialize with people they love interaction and they're going to be in an office for a long time as ISA. And so a high I can be really hitting a brick road for someone. Your natural buyers agents those are going to be your highest Is and then an S and S are stable compliance. They don't like to rock the boat and affect your confrontation.

Erik: [00:12:47] And as ISA your consistently quote unquote interrupting people's lives and you could have called reluctance if you have a higher Is now that's 25 percent the next 75 percent to 80 percent culture and then 25 percent of that is you're hungry or great your tenacity. And so ISA all those because on Step number two were able to get much more serious about understanding their profile how they feel about their resume if they can get a sign of if they're bouncing around. For every job and then you can also start maybe researching them on social media not to make any decisions based on our protected classes or rather to make sure that you're not letting crazy out the door. Step number three is we do a career night and instead of me trying to filter through and figure out who are all these people we instead invite those that have gone through the filter with every piece of that filter gets it narrowed down or more and more as we go through these nine steps at this career. Step number three we find out who had thrown their application out on 90 different sites and applied at 90 different jobs. We find out who really wants to work in our world and those that really want to work in our world will show up for the career nights and those that apply for every job and are willing to take an extra step. They don't show up. And so we filtered down automatically and then we get face to face and we get a chance to feel that person's energy and to see if they vibe.

Erik: [00:14:18] Michael great question you asked about to elaborate have a 50%  culture. I would describe it like this Michael as you. It's a feeling and that feeling actually starts at career night the energy that the person brings are the the biggest two things. I believe that or for culture. Number one if somebody is coachable and number two if they're selfless if they are others before self their servants and their natural nature. For us that fits into our culture. I also think that people can't be victims and there's a lot of victims that apply. And when you ask them questions they're blaming everybody else. And that is like toxicity in world. And so we make sure that when we're talking about the present culture that we're keeping that out. So this career we're talking about the job and in fact my role and my goal is not to lure them in by talking about how sexy are places I rather try to scare the bejesus out of them and have them not apply. And I want them to self select out of the business to talk about how this is a lifestyle and how I don't want them to graduate up although there's opportunities to do so they have to earn the right to graduate and not just be bequeath that right. Step number four is there for them ISA questions and it's continuing to narrow down the final step number five 30 minute interviews are we really start to find out how this works.

Erik: [00:15:43] Step number 6 is we then check references and this is so vitally important because if I asked Robby for his three best references he's going to give me his best friend from high school and he's going to give me his co-worker that thinks Robbie's great and he's going to give me his art but I'm not going to know that it's his All right. And then we have to do more diligence than that. So we actually ask those three references for three more references and then we ask those three references for three more references and we do nine total reference checks on people because we're going to get to the nitty gritty of it. We're going to find out. It doesn't necessarily disqualify somebody if that person doesn't speak well of them. We just want to find out why in the world has there been conflict and how is this person persevered through it. So that's the first six steps and then step number seven to your question. Nate took me a long time to get there. Your question was what specific questions do we asked in the interview in our interview process on step number 7 as a three hour interview. The first half is the life story. Robby tell us about the life story because it's one of my favorite things that we do.

Robby: [00:16:52] So it's honestly as crazy as it sounds. It usually starts off with us letting them now for us with an interview the three hours long. You always seem to give them the framework that this interview is going to be different than a normal interview. That's where you got to start you've got to set that standard set that expectation.

Robby: [00:17:11] And one of the expectations we always start with is at any point in time if they feel like this isn't the right role for them or we feel like this isn't the right fit for them we owe it to each other to protect each other's time and let each other now. So you let them know how this frame of this interview is going to go. But the first hour hour and a half is all about them. And honestly it starts with the simple question of I wanna know your life story. So let's go back to when you were a little kid and tell me about how you were raised. Just start there. And what's crazy is every person is going to find from a question like that a different starting point. So I was going to say she was sort of middle school sort of elementary school. And it's really up to you to how you want to interpret it what you will allow them to get to that starting point. And then the conversation goes from there because everyone's been everyone's going to have a different story. I mean once we go down a different path and no interviews the same if there's one thing I can tell you is that no one is going to be the same. But it always starts with tell me your story. And traditionally when you ask that question sometimes are going to starting a surface and you've got to dig deeper but they'll guide you through the things that are the most important now things that we ask maybe generate more conversation are finding out the best thing that's ever happened to somebody finding out the worst thing that's ever happened to somebody because those are usually defining moments that can really determine who somebody is.

Robby: [00:18:49] Anything you want to add to that Erik.

Erik: [00:18:51] Now that three hour interview is I mean you're getting into the roots and the nature of people. And the goal is to have them respond to things that they naturally don't respond to. Let me give you an example because we can talk about this and a lot of people have heard that you go long and the interviews. But Nate let's role play this out for a second OK. I can't I can't. In an interview ask you about your family. I can't ask you about any protected classes. I can't ask you about any of them but with the right questions you're going to start answering that. So Nate tell me with your life story. Where did you grow up.

Nate: [00:19:38] I grew up in Des Moines Iowa.

Erik: [00:19:40] Ok. Who is really important in your life when you were younger growing up.

Nate: [00:19:46] That is a good question.

Robby: [00:19:47] I would say some almost word. And that's it. It is.

Erik: [00:19:54] So who is who is really important in your life.

Nate: [00:19:58] Yeah well it started jumping back in. I would say it's my grandpa. He and he's been with me for quite a long time. He's he's an entrepreneur himself and he's really impacted my life in some positive ways.

Erik: [00:20:15] That's fascinating. What kind of relationship you have with your grandpa growing up.

Nate: [00:20:20] Very fun casual he he doesn't really always act like a grandparent.

Nate: [00:20:26] He's kind of just a young man.

Erik: [00:20:31] So so what what kind of activities would you guys do that were out of the norm.

Nate: [00:20:35] I can't remember specifically when he took me out to a bar once and tried to pick up some ladies for me and so I don't know if that's a good sign for my business career but it certainly helps my my personal life.

Erik: [00:20:53] So you got amazing personal attention from your grandpa right. Yes. Were there any relationships in your life early on that you didn't get the amazing attention from that left you feeling maybe a bit of a void. Wow. OK so stop right there. Stop right there. Let's.

Robby: [00:21:12] That's when you know you've won by the way. When that wild moment hits it and.

Erik: [00:21:16] When when you don't have when you don't have anything that is a rehearsed answer and that's what you're going for in this interview is you're going to get out of the rehearsed answer. You had a story you told that story of your grandpa before. Right. And I just use that bit of information about what made you feel good. And I just gave you counterbalance it intrinsically if somebody talks about here's a point in my life that this was really tough. Man I grew up without my dad involved. Oh. So you asked about that and you learn about that because there's emotions with that. But then you say what kind of relationship did you have with your mom. And then you get the other side of the coin quite often and you get to find out how is this person resilient and how did they go through all this. Right. And so that's the first 90 minutes of this 180 minute interview. And you just dive in deeper and it's pretty common that people have emotions with it and yet realize what they are what they're working for and who they're working for the second half is starting to talk about job specifics for the first time. Step number six in the second and third hour of this hiring process. The first time we really get specific about the job is that step number 7 that was step number seven step number eight is then you should be gathering at the departments that you're going to be working with directly or the key people and they should go to a happy hour or coffee or dinner with you and connect on a social setting. We then want to allow our team members to say we think this person fits our culture and we like their energy or they can honestly nullify all the steps that were lead up to that point.

Erik: [00:22:55] Fact Robby did that a couple of months ago. Talk about that Rob because I think it's it's an important thing that you were able to dissect with the people in the interview weren't able to pull apart.

Robby: [00:23:07] So this is really this is the second half of the interview now we're I want to share a few questions and I've learned to ask that help us catch somebody that really didn't want to be and ISA but kept saying they wanted to be and this person was super great. And I she was awesome. But really what had happened at this point was she got all the way through the process. She did the interview with the other  ISAs and I just asked him a few quick questions and I asked them well. Why is she leaving her current opportunity. And they said well she feels burned out from her current role and her current role was direct sales. All right. So we're missing a piece of the puzzle. There was something with direct sales that she was burnt out on essentially and I heard that and I said All right. So when she comes into the office and meets with me because I'm the final step.

Robby: [00:24:03] Now that was the final step you're part of Step number eight right. Yes. You're part of the team. You didn't do the interview but you're the you were the one to be able to either give your stamp approval or your step of disapproval.

Robby: [00:24:18] Exactly and I wasn't giving a disapproval at this point yet but I definitely had some red flags and I just sense there was something there. So she came in and honestly really what I did was I spent about 15 minutes just asking her what she was hoping to get out of a role.

Robby: [00:24:36] And I'd ask questions like ideally what is your your workday look like. What do you want to be doing. And she said things like she wanted to be working directly with clients. Eventually she wanted to be selling home she loved. Real estate. All of which is a red flag in the ISA role obviously because you spend zero time with people you sit in a box and shoot text shoot e-mails make phone calls all day long and you don't work directly selling real estate. So I just listen to her. Tony Robbins says we want to influence someone to find out what is influencing them. And that's all I did for about 15 minutes and there was still some red flags there and I put a bow on this. This is the question I've learned to ask that that really works well because it takes something that can be complex and makes it simple is I ask somebody I say what type of role do you want to work in. And I described three different options and I tell them you need to tell me which role appeals to you most. Instantly an answer like that and can't think about it. And then on top of that I want you to provide the why behind it. So I'll describe it like this or say Nate which of these roles is the most appealing to you.

Robby: [00:25:55] Nate you're getting hired or fired today or we're not picking you by.

Robby: [00:26:00] But option A looks like this. You work a very steady job with a very steady. Hey it's an eight 30 to 5 job where you check out you don't work nights and weekends and the salary is very consistent and you're probably making somewhere around 40 to 50 thousand dollars. Or option B is you are working 60 to 70 hours per week directly with clients who are working directly in real estate sales. There's the potential to make six figures. But you're probably working 50 60 hours per week and then Option C is your go to work in office 40 to 50 hours per week and then you're going to be working another 10 hours outside those hours. Certainly working 50 60 hours per week. And there's the potential to make six figures but you're never going to work directly with clients.

Robby: [00:27:00] It's going to be all over the phone or texting and emailing and which one of those Nate is the most profitable to you. And usually of course people that want to be an agent they say be someone that lacks the hunger that wants a very consistent type role he's drawn to an admin type role says option A. And then the say is going to say Option C so we generally. I present it like that. And in this case I did this to this gal and I asked and she said well without a doubt option B. And really what she's then saying is I don't want to be in ISA role.

Robby: [00:27:45] And again you can't as you want she wants to be in the world though. I mean that yes she was right. Yeah.

Robby: [00:27:53] Drown our world but not the job role and what we had to do in that moment was we told her. This is not a no of you not being in our world. It's this role isn't right for you. I think the last thing we should ever do is hire somebody into a role that's going to be extremely a poor fit for them and that's what it would have been we would have hired her she would've came in and she would have been miserable in that role. It was nothing that she wanted.

Robby: [00:28:22] And she was great talent and I think actually she'll probably join our world at some point. And I think we did the best thing by finding out she really wanted to see if it aligned with the role she's the right person. Right. Culture you're not the right fit for the role.

Nate: [00:28:43] Can I jump in there and ask a question kind of on on Erik's comment here. You know I know you guys are involved with every aspect of your business. How how might you know that someone's not a good fit for the ISA role other than those questions that you asked that you posed. You know is it is it. Is it the right idea to bring in multiple people on the interview so you can say hey maybe you know. So they have those different perspectives from the different aspects of business. Who is who should be involved in that interview process so they might have a better idea of hey not a good fit but she might be a good fit here for me.

Erik: [00:29:23] Loaded question I'll try. I'll try to unpack that their Nate. We have a person in our world that has done the majority of the hiring outside of me. She is on our admin side so we always we always believe in a three step process when somebody is getting trained it's it's really simple. Watch me watch you go and do and if if you have never hired somebody before and nobody on your team has ever hired somebody before you've got to fail your way forward. Use webinars use us as resources we want to help ride the tide as best we can but you've got to you've got to figure it out right. If you have hired somebody once twice three times or a thousand times your seen more as the expert. The more apps you have the better. We've we've spent a lot of time having Monica our H.R. gal in office manager I've had her watch me.

Erik: [00:30:21] And then I sat in and I let her conduct the interview and I watched her. And then finally when she was empowered that she was the one to go and to do it. But I want you to think about this because we hear that we're like yeah that's very typical business advice right. Like have somebody shadow you. And then you share with them and they're good to go. But I want you to think about teaching your grandma how to use your cellphone for just a moment. You teach your grandma how to use your cellphone. What happens is you grab your cell phone and then you type boop boop boop boop boop and you say you got it grandma. OK. And what she says is No I don't. No I don't. And by the way I'm 38 years old now which makes me totally out of touch with most technology and Mike Jones and all those other things. And so I am in this place now where I'm realizing that it is really difficult to just see somebody do something else and then think that you got it. It's like watching a grandparent watch you on yourself or that they just know how to they know how to use all these apps and it takes so much time and you have to show them and then you have to watch them and coach them. And so in our world if you are a larger part of a larger ecosystem whomever is the one that is experienced and it needs to have people watch them study them and then they need to be watching that person before you cut them. Did I answer your question there Nate.

Nate: [00:31:48] Yeah yeah I think he did. Absolutely. So is there is there an One-Step. Have we hit the right step. Yeah I get a job. Yeah. And that was the easy one.

Erik: [00:32:01] And most people skipped six to seven of those steps and every time I've skipped a step cut a corner or whatever it is it has not worked out. We want to rush this and a lot of us are millennials or close to it. We want things instantaneously. And that is not the way to setup a long term business plan is instantaneously. It is building a culture. But here's here's what is so imperative when you're communicating to these people who are going to be possibly your future ISAs is you need to tell them that this is a new role and that they need to show up and own this role. This is not an order taking rule. This is a role that they need to come in and be the chief commander the King Poobah of this entire role that you are giving them permission not to just pick up all these leftover leads that are responded to rather you were the future growth of this company. And everything we have is now on your shoulders. And so these people become managers and leaders and in your world and this is one of the huge differences between our Hatch Coaching and Hatch Realty world and many other ways in which people run their ISA programs.

Erik: [00:33:11] They are not the bottom of the totem pole in our world they are the top of the food chain. OK. So please be very cognizant about that. You're not looking for an order taker you're looking for a leader. As far as I'm concerned that's that's how the question is was asked a little while ago in the chat. How do you keep somebody in this role when they really want to jump to production. I think you actually feed them with leadership and responsibility. You don't keep them as as the ones who are just picking up all the stuff that nobody else is getting. Right. Don't take all your lives and just don't want to know ISA you're setting yourself up for failure. But as they earn the right to start leading the team that's how you find somebody who a grind and a rule is when you give them opportunity responsibility and influence. And so that changes the scope when I'm talking about that right you're not looking for somebody who's just really good details who make phone calls you're looking for somebody who's a powerful powerful leader right.

Robby: [00:34:11] That prerace by the way Wolf of Wall Street I think is.

Robby: [00:34:16] Yeah. I want to add to that a quick to really accentuate the points. When you hire an ISA they're not just going to be creating opportunities contacting lead setting appointments. They also have to have the willingness to have uncomfortable conversations with your agents.

Robby: [00:34:41] In our world our ISAs aren't just lead converters they are really leading managers. And that means that they are having to have management type conversations with agents. In other words sometimes agents drop balls and the ISAs are the ones that see it happening and they got to be the one to go that's the coach or the leader that goes and has these very uncomfortable conversations sometimes about them not doing what they're supposed to do. So make sure you think of that as well.

Nate: [00:35:14] Yeah. So I think I think we've covered the entire process there covered a lot. One of the things that I think we're kind of revolving around a little bit then is you know what. What should the typical background of an ISA look like. I know we kind of touched on what their DISC profile should look like. But now we kind of mentioned they should be leaders and they're going to be at the top of the totem pole rather than the bottom.

Nate: [00:35:42] So are you looking for people with you know a vast background of 10 years leading a sales team or are you looking for someone. What are you looking for. What does the typical background of say who could transition into a leader look like.

Erik: [00:35:57] I was I was in Texas a couple of weeks ago for some training and was with my buddy Thomas Elrod out of North Carolina and he and I were chatting and he described it to me like this as he said you know what in a lot of people's worlds they have goldfish that sits in their little bowl waiting to be fed. And he said that his goal was to have sharks people that went and fed themselves that were hungry and hunters and I would say that a person's job experience in the past doesn't determine where they're going to go in the future. I'm looking for somebody who is a shark and you can see that in ways when you do enough interviews you spend enough time with somebody you're going to see if they have waited for the world to be given to them on a silver platter or if they had been willing to go and to grind. We've had really great experience with people with military backgrounds. Two of our three ISAs currently one is Marine and one is Army National Guard. And they have had masterful experiences of falling into a system and then we watched them climb the ranks outperforming their peers. They showed that they were hungry. We also have a weird assimilation with all of our biases that seemed to really adore Star Wars. And I can't figure it out. I can't tell you why. I've never seen Star Wars before and I also know I would make a horrible ISA. You could say Robby shake his pipe and depart.

Robby: [00:37:34] No I think you're right about that I think there is no military thing billed as to any to go hire somebody from the military. Please don't hear that. What I think Erik is saying is what really matters is do they have a history of defying the expectation going above and beyond.

Robby: [00:37:53] I think another piece I know in my case when I sat down and I asked Are I ISAs is this correlation is not causation. One of the things that really stood out to me was the that I event that had been successful in our world and actually a lot of the people that have been successful in our world have had some type of life event or experience that was humbling. And I know for myself I left political campaigns not on such great notes. And that was humbling.

Robby: [00:38:26] Jim had been overseas and Cody and Erik had been overseas as well as well as Pete one of our former ISAs and I asked them that said what's going on here is this a fluke or is this causation. And they said the realistic piece of it is when you serve overseas and you come back every day here is a pretty darn good day. So I think humility and I think hunger. You want principles you want to see the principles and somebody's background. I don't think that correlates with you have 10 years of managing a call center. I don't think that matters. I don't think you need to go out there and hire somebody who has two years of calls and or experience of anything. I don't think it really matters. I know I've had a cousin who works in a call center and tries to sell me Cutco knives and there's a zero percent chance that I would hire her for this role because that's not what this is. I want somebody that has a history of showing that they want to improve their lives and they're willing to put in the work to do so. And when we learn somebody's stories you see demonstrations of that and the people that I've been successful in this role they have. When you learn their story they show that hunger. So I don't think there's one role I know in my case I worked on political campaigns and I knocked doors and I made phone calls and yes it helped me. Be prepared for this role because if there's anything less popular than sales it's politics. I had a knock on doors and make phone calls on political campaigns and have the door slammed you are facing gets worn out which same thing happens in the sales. But I think that the hunger is the big piece. You've got to find somebody who has a desire and hunger to change their life to change her life and is willing to put in the work. And you can't sell them or try faking it.

Robby: [00:40:30] You can't fake it for three hours when you ask the questions and that's what Erik found when he interviewed me.

Nate: [00:40:35] Yes. Processes that are important. Yeah go ahead.

Erik: [00:40:38] I mean when we cover this quickly Nate we oftentimes place job ads and expect the right people to show up. And I want you to think about that because we have we've discovered the irony and the mistakes and the holes in our system and our companies. And that is for ISAs we pride ourselves on aggressively going after what we think is the best opportunity we aggressively go after are not aggressive with them. We're aggressive with our systems and we're tenacious with it. And then when it comes to talent we just sit around and 21000 expected to show up. It's like waiting for book. The hope was a very bad business strategy. Hope is a great thing to have in your hearts. And yet if it's not met with massive action behind it you were setting yourself up for a huge failure and most of us hope that great talent is going to show up and really my job is I don't I don't hit the phones for for people. I don't hit the phones with the next listing and the next buyer I need to go out there and find incredible people and hunt them down. I need to be an ISA for talent I need to be aggressively going to find these people and it's not showing up to say Would you like a job. It's constantly every restaurant that you're at every interaction that you have with somebody who's in service seeing how they are and being unafraid to ask them about their dreams and life. It's not to say hey do you want to make a hundred thousand dollars. Come work with me instead. Is same man you give me really great service. I want to learn more about you. What do you want to do with your life. What are you passionate about. And if those passions happen to align yourself in a better spot. So if you're gonna find great ISA talent they tell you yes you have to go through placing the ads and everything else you will almost always have your best successes when you find people that are already connected to you because you believe and so forth and you're pretty.

Nate: [00:42:43] So are there any are there any red flags. I know we've talked a lot about the good things to look for you know the positives that the the great flags that you should be looking for. Your interview process. Are there any red flags or deal breakers that you might hear or see in your interview process or in your applications. I think I want to I also want to say for any ISA listening is there any red flag or deal breaker that you know walking into an interview with with Erik or a team leader that you should be aware of as an ISA that might make you back out to kind of both sides of the equation there any deal breakers red flags.

Robby: [00:43:31] So I would say this in this I a role but the first red flag I look for is anytime someone says I want to work in real estate. It's almost always a red flag and it's because they want to work directly with people. And it's it's a red flag for this role.

Robby: [00:43:49] Every ISA that we've had come into our world. One did not have their real estate license. And then two had zero desire to work in real estate. They didn't want to. It's not what they're drawn to. It's not their natural fit.

Robby: [00:44:09] And the reason for that is working in real estate is working directly with people.

Robby: [00:44:15] And again in this role you get very very very little of that if not not I think of the 1 2 3 4 400 ish closings that I brought in I probably met two or three random strangers and they were very impactful stories. That is not what I would want. So that's one of the the big red flags. The second one is we have no room for angry human beings in our world. And we had someone in an interview that was it that showed anger demonstrated anger and not just frustration but anger or a desire to hurt someone. And that's just that's not going to fly in a world. So that's probably more of a culture piece. But those are just two major red flags that that we've you know jolted people out.

Erik: [00:45:07] I I'm I'm drawn to people that are me people are actually that are people and are turned off by people who are me self-serving. You know the things that we love we also can find out what we avoid by looking at the other side of the coin. My my. And this may be where I've been lately. My biggest frustration with potential hires are victims people who play the blame game. Yeah it is. It is just you can't stop somebody from being a victim. But you sure cannot hire. That's a lot easier.

Robby: [00:45:47] And the opposite side of that the opposite side of playing the victim role is an ownership role. And when you learn people's stories everybody has failures. And when they talk about their failures are they blaming somebody else for their failure or are they taking ownership that they caused the failure just little pieces like that are the ways you're going to take past the surface level B.S. and find those authentic stories.

Robby: [00:46:14] So yeah it's not just avoiding the victims. You want people to take full ownership of what they do that are accountable to what they do.

Erik: [00:46:23] And here is the question. Here's the interview question. Nate tell me a time in which you failed on a huge scale when and then ask follow up questions. When's the last time you let somebody down. What was the biggest mistake you made in the last month. Like just get specific give them a mind set up but sometimes you can say with your friend group because people just think we're at work with your friends. When do you let your friend down recently. And if they don't have anything they either the perfect friend and I just want to be best with them. Or or or or I can be there. They're not self-aware enough to understand that they are victims and it's because you asked us Robby right now Robby when were you a bad friend in the last 30 days. And I bet you I bet you'll say you you with any I'll say in this situation I saw this person is directly and they needed me and I didn't send it right away and I like you own your stuff.

Nate: [00:47:22] You know is there any point thinking anyone in that process or droughty innervation where the ISA say or that he attended is able to ask you questions. I mean in terms of like role play I know we've seen a couple that that question a couple of times. Do you do you offer that opportunity to let the diet kind of jump in. Ask you questions.

Nate: [00:47:43] You know that's what they ISA roll is they're only as good as the questions they ask. When does that when does that opportunity presented itself.

Robby: [00:47:54] So I'll answer that first. I think in that beginning of the interview I let them know traditionally if they have any questions for me they can certainly ask. I will say this. That's the highest quality candidates that we have in the second part of the interview when it becomes very professional. We give them the opportunity to ask us questions about the role and that's traditionally where some of the stand outs really pop out because they don't just sit there with their you know hands tied. They start asking you some questions that are usually pretty darn good. So I would say they're allowed to ask questions throughout the process. But it's towards the end of the two and a half hours where it's their time to ask very very specific questions. And honestly we get excited about some candidates. We just hired a guy who had a list of questions. And in that last half hour and because you're right that their ability to ask questions is so huge but it's hordes that towards the end will get them.

Erik: [00:49:04] But it's amazing to find out how it happens at the career night. It happens when they're applying because they can ask questions to us it happens when they're registering for things.

Erik: [00:49:12] We're seeing this trend. Some people say how much you want to make. And that's their first question. Yes. I love your hunger but if you think that that's how you're going to win somebody over is jumping to compensation. It's tough. I do want to I do want to make sure that we say this piece is a lot of people want to graduate their ISAs. When you hire an ISA they may want to move into a producing Agent role. In fact there is a body Lance Loken in Houston Texas he runs one of the top real estate teams in the world. They do thousands of transactions a year and Lance requires people to start as an ISA in his world and then will graduate them up. The only way I can endorse or recommend this and same with Lance is if you also have ISAs that are permanently in the rule because you use the said you can use it as a breeding ground testing ground and a grounds to give people something it's fantastic..

Nate: [00:50:11] I just kind of want to have that consistency and the right there is somebody or out hiring the second highest and that is something that you wish you would have done better in the first one that you learned in the second hire. What's the dynamic between you know going forward and hiring your second third fourth ISAs.

Robby: [00:50:37] It's not often that I get to do it the hunger of the second or third ISAs should scare the first or second that would be my biggest thing is when you hire that person you should bring them in. They should be better and they should be hungrier than the first or second. So I just want to get to that and you can add to it Erik.

Erik: [00:50:57] Thank you. The funny thing is I have a haircut coming up and I just want everyone to see this. It's going to be very quick watching myself. These are painful.

Erik: [00:51:10] When you're looking for your second ISA you are looking for an interesting combination. I wouldn't always say you want somebody to compliment that person meaning. My wife is an "S" "C". I'm a "D" "I". Right. We compliment each other but my wife wouldn't be a great ISA nor would I. But you're not looking for that person to compliment it just to bring in the soft side or somebody is more aggressive. You're looking for somebody to compete and Robby said you want that person to hustle hard because having that second person in there should intrinsically make that first person run faster. Do you run faster Nate if you're being chased or if you're chasing someone. And the truth of the matter is you're going to run faster if you're in a race than if you're just jogging on your own.

Erik: [00:51:54] So whether you are in first place or second place you're going to you to Structurely get away when you're done. Also how would you describe this type of their final comp is your first. Say you do with us is good but he's good at it. Yeah. Friday afternoon looks with a somewhat questions right now.

Nate: [00:52:12] Guys give us your final thoughts while we are we let some others get some final questions and.

Erik: [00:52:30] I'm going first Rob. My final thoughts are this is ISA game has changed our world and us getting serious about higher and this is this isn't just ISA that we're talking about this is everyone we just talked specifically about the ISA language. This game is changing. The real estate game is changing artificial intelligence is changed and people are changing. When we look at different generations of folks and it's going to be imperative that you take this so seriously and 80 percent of your problems go away when you have the right people in your world instead of the wrong people. And so take this seriously move intentionally slow be strategic about what you're doing and then fail your way forward. Failure way to the Top and is going to be essential. And so yes you're going to look for that perfect ISA say they will totally disrupt your world if they're terrible if they're good you can you can move if I have to accept it. But you can't move a three to seven. Right. So I want you to see a fine rate here and help get them here and pray that they got here. Honestly I thought Robby was here. Turns out he's up here and so you don't know what you don't know. You start doing that and trust your processes peace out.

Robby: [00:53:47] I love it and I want to add one more thing that maybe we breezed over is you need to hire. Not that I was leaving. I think that's something that we oftentimes move to quickly pass is this role is truly about serving other people and loving and caring about other people's self so when you're hiring and ISA hire someone that you would trust to help your grandma to help your spouse to honestly babysit your children. If they can't do things like that you would never trust a person to do that. If they're hungry but they are schmuck. Don't hire them. You've got a hired good people. That's that's one of the biggest thing that I would highly recommend. So find people that love and care about other human beings who can go a long way.

Nate: [00:54:37] It's awesome when we see what's going on time. We appreciate it guys. I think this was awesome. I love all the comments here. It's really really exciting. I will bid you farewell from Structurely. I'll let Robby say goodbye to you.

Robby: [00:54:57] Yeah thanks. I'm excited. We're excited to debate "Are Dials Dead" its one of the best questions to get asked in awhile.

Nate: [00:55:12] Right well we will see you guys. Thanks everyone. Have a great weekend!

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