173: But What I Really Want to do is Creative Direct, with Dan Mall - a podcast by 5by5

Creative director, advisor, designer, developer, author (Pricing Design), speaker, mentor, musician, and entrepreneur (SuperFriendly, SuperBooked) Dan Mall is Jeffrey Zeldman’s guest. Running a studio, pitching, value pricing, the apprentice program, “Make Grunt do it,” how to start a startup, “the most exciting design systems are boring,” walking away from big pitches, launching a service to help you find work.

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