9999 Multiple Sclerosis SPECIAL - Caryn Franklin MBE - Inclusivity, Clothes and Identity - a podcast by Bron Webster - diagnosed 1996, mum with MS, expert MS patient and still mob

Caryn Franklin is a Fashion and Identity Commentator / Agent of Change.

She is a Visiting Professor of Diverse Selfhood at Kingston School of Art and Co-Founder All Walks Beyond the Catwalk.

Instagram available at @franklinonfashion

Copyright: Bron Webster 2020

 

Brands mentioned:

https://samantabullock.com/ - SB Designs

www.theablelabel.com

 

Transcript:

This is the MS show podcast people with multiple sclerosis and their families who want information and inspiration. I'm Bron Webster. I've been living with Ms for over 20 years. I'll be sharing with you tips stories from ways to keep going with me.

 

Unknown Speaker  0:24 

Welcome to this really special episode, I had a huge treat when I caught up with one of my childhood heroes who has got experience of multiple sclerosis, Karen Franklin MBE, who I remember from her clothes show days when I was a teenager. She's a fashion and identity commentator. She's a visiting professor of diverse selfhood at Kingston School of Art and today we're talking all things humanity inclusivity clothes and their effect on our moods and our thoughts.

So here I am with Karen Franklin. And I'm really looking forward to talking all things, clothes, colors, selfhood, and having a really good chat. So welcome to the show, Karen.

 

Unknown Speaker  1:27 

Thank you very much.

 

Unknown Speaker  1:29 

I know I've got loads that I want to talk to you about. But I thought that where I was coming from, is my own experience of not being able to wear what I want to wear. Not being able to get dressed always very easily not being able to wear high heels. So I'm sitting in the garden in my crock sandals because I can no longer wear flip flops and It's just a massive change that is wrapped up with my health condition. And so when I have, when I saw that there was an opportunity to talk to somebody about how I can and how everybody else can become more positive as the result of how they look. So I've got to talk to Karen. So could you sort of tell us a little bit about your background, your experiences and what you really try to focus on?

 

Unknown Speaker  2:32 

Okay, so um, first of all, what I would like to do is maybe give you and everyone who's listening, just a bit of immediate kind of help, inspiration, comfort feeling about the conundrum that you've just highlighted. What we are seeing is more and more companies recognizing that there are services to be provided in closing thing that as yet have been ignored. Now, you know, now I know that business follows profit and money talks. And so we understand that there is the purple pound, as everyone knows, is is unexploited. And so therefore,

 

Unknown Speaker  3:20 

companies are waking up to the fact that actually producing garments for the thin white teenager

 

Unknown Speaker  3:30 

and aiming all their marketing at that person when they have a very limited budget doesn't make good business sense on the one hand, but also there are, you know more and more young creatives who are enlightened and who want to sort of broaden their practice and to reach out to people who genuinely need their design skills and need their services. They don't want to kind of have to fit into a market that is just so on thinking. And so kind of recognizing or services that could be provided. So I'm seeing that because I work in fashion education a lot. But you asked me to tell a little bit about myself. Certainly from 2009. I've always been very vocal about the fashion industry's promotion of unachievable audio ideals, specifically on behalf of women. But also recognizing that men also are now under increasing pressure to conform to a very narrow ideal of masculinity. And in 2009, I, you know, I had felt myself while I've been in this industry, for nearly was coming up to 30 years at that point, and I don't see it getting any better and I'm going to challenge it so I created co founded a campaign called all walks behind the catwalk with the international supermodel Erin O'Connor and a PR expert called Debra Bourne. And we made a big sort of lobbying campaign it was all unwaged and unfunded where we were not just talking to our own industry, but we were we had outreach to mental health experts to government ministers, we worked a lot with Joe Swinson and Lynn Featherston when they held the Minister of equalities positions. And we worked with big organizations like Girl Guides have a quarter of a million young women in their membership to to really provide the tools to and the language to challenge this unhealthy ideal that fashion promotes and within that broaden the way that it promotes what we see in Fashion imagery to include much broader spectrum of size, age, skin tone, face. Now what I didn't foresee because I thought I've spent most of my career challenging fashion people not to use desperately thin models. I thought they would rally against it as they always did too. And that when I was asked did I think we when it would be we would see people with 40 different physical disability on the catwalk. I said, I don't know if we will see that. I don't know if you know, fashion designers are going to be flexible enough since you know, for me, it's been a, you know, 2530 year battle, to to just challenge you the use of very thin models. But I'm just thrilled to say that that has begun those barriers have begun to be broken down. So we have people like Kelly Knox on the catwalk who is a model with a missing forearm, Jack Aires, who is a model who has a prosthetic leg, and I have seen imagery of models were in wheelchairs. And further than that we have we do have people in your three likes Samantha Bullock, who has started her own range she is.

 

Unknown Speaker  7:28 

I think she's certainly an Olympian. A top athlete, sorry, I'm struggling for the correct name for what it is that she does. But she also in a wheelchair has created her own range of clothing, understanding what is needed for people with body difference and it's inclusive. So it's not just aimed at people with multi difference or disabilities that they're living with same to everybody. But it takes takes in an understanding around fastenings. And there are specific garments that you can buy that you would wear, should you need it, you know, it's adaptive clothing. She's one person who has she's called SB designs. She's on Instagram. And then I came across another young woman who has made her own company. It's called the Able Label. And hers is clothing that addresses people, people's needs when they have very little finger strength or little, very little movement of their lives. So getting dressed is is thought out, you know, you don't have to sort of lift your arms up and struggle pulling something over your head buttons behind you. So I'm very excited to think

 

Unknown Speaker  8:51 

that we do have,

 

Unknown Speaker  8:55 

we do have kind of young, innovative people out there doing things stuff. And on top of that, we now have the big brands looking at what they're doing. And that's an area that big brands are talking about.

 

Unknown Speaker  9:08 

I think that's such a positive result. And you would have been right at the start of that, with all the campaigning work that you've done. And lo and behold, you know, the fashion designers and the young people that are coming up, are making these real positive tracks to try and address those nine know exactly that fastening the buttons to put on a shirt. Forget it. So, you know, it's just elastic all the way or Velcro. And yeah, it's really it's really important. I think that this adaptable clothing is starting to come to the fore. So that is all really really interesting stuff. And I think the work that you've done around the diversity and challenging that. Making that first step to make the challenge and seeing where it's going. We're seeing where it's gone so far. It's great. As exciting is, certainly what I've seen is that,

 

Unknown Speaker  10:16 

you know, the normalizing body difference is vital for all of us. So obviously being seen and being visible, presents its own kind of benefits. But for people who were unaware of their health privileges, to see a range of a sort of presentation of a spectrum of humanity, is there are benefits for everyone, so that we can begin to see a situation in where we are all. You know, we all come under the umbrella of humanity. I think there are an awful lot of people who you know, we only engage in social media. comparison. And often people's aspirations are so unachievable because of the post production work that is done on fashion imagery, even mass media imagery now, and the celebrity lifestyles that are promoted, you know, they have huge followers, and of course, the normalization or sort of augment its augmentation of appearance cosmetic surgery, that, that young women, particularly young women, who are incredibly susceptible to ideas of what it is to be

 

Unknown Speaker  11:40 

to appear attractive

 

Unknown Speaker  11:44 

when they can see a broader range of audio and beauty ideals. This impacts really positively on their mental health and reminds them that it's not about aiming for this unachievable body ideal that you know naught point two I don't know percent of humankind naturally achieved and and on top of that, for us all to know that and I've spent a lifetime with very beautiful human beings who we look at and think, well, life must be really hunky dory for you because you've been blessed with this incredible appearance and good health. But those people have the same health, mental health issues, the same kind of worries about who they are and are they good enough? They don't kind of they don't walk around feeling ultra great, because that's their normal. So I'm not asking us all to feel huge amounts of empathy for them in particular, but I'm just saying that we put this stuff onto people don't worry about we make an assumption when we look at them about how they're living. Their life and that, you know, especially if they're attractive, and there are many studies that show that, you know, attractive people are awarded with all kinds of undeserved sort of ranking. But that doesn't mean to say that they're living that life.

 

Unknown Speaker  13:22 

We Yeah, we're putting them on a pedestal, aren't we?

 

Unknown Speaker  13:24 

Yeah, it's what we project onto our onto them, you know, but also on to ourselves, you know, self image is a hugely powerful tool. And that's,

 

Unknown Speaker  13:35 

that's something that does fascinate me. Hmm. So that sort of leads me quite nicely onto the next question about self image and identity. And it intrigued me as to your thoughts about how can a disabled person like myself, so not necessarily a wheelchair user, but they've got things that are making them feel unhappy about their appearance? How can they either maintain their identity or carve a new identity

 

Unknown Speaker  14:10 

for themselves? So no, this is the the question that that everybody asks, you know, when people come out of relationships that fit, you know, women especially the first thing they look to do is redefine themselves visibly. When we go into a work environment and we want to impress we, you know, pay a lot of attention to what the clothing is that, that we'll do that when we when we go out for a special occasion. You know, more often than not, we've put a great deal of effort into what we what we want to wear. For you. Choosing clothing is an act of self expression, no matter what we think about say fashion and trend and you know that that's a separate aside You know, that's the industry talking to itself and trying to trigger people to buy more clothes. But the act of making choices, personal choices about our style, is one of the most self empowering things that we can do. So recognizing that, and studies show that we read someone in under a second, we take a very quick kind of visual image of them. And our brain has already made all kinds of assumptions based on what we're seeing. And you know, some of those are sort of obvious things. You know, the minute we look at someone we could place their age, even if we did if we were shown a picture for it's a 10th of a second that psychologists found that we can make a huge amount of assumptions. But so we could have a picture flashed up at us, we would know that a We would get a sense of their emotional disposition by what the expression they were wearing on their face. And we'd have an understanding of how they felt about themselves by what they were wearing. Because, you know, the biggest part of our body is covered in cloth. We have face and neck kind of for people to read. And then most of it is covered in cloth and so those are the choices that we can be fully in control of, and some of the cliche stand truth, you know, suiting and tailoring delivers authority and power dressing, color delivers spontaneity, and emotional sensation, we cannot help but respond to bright color. In similarly dark color delivers a certain sense of sobriety and, and again or authority but you know, the mood is very good. different patterns, we, you know, the playfulness, of pattern, the rhythm, that pattern suggest, and the punctuation that that can suggest. We take all these things and we if if we say to ourselves, it doesn't matter what I wear, I don't care what I wear, we do do ourselves a great disservice. So, I would say, clearly, we all work within our own framework. You know, ask anybody and they'd say, Well, I really like the color red, but it doesn't suit my coloring. So I choose this or I'd really love to be able to wear those shoes, but I can't stay up writing them so I don't. But within that we can make a huge amount of choices men and women. And I would say to male listeners at this point.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:58 

You know, women are a kind have highly visually literate and they notice your choice of clothing.

 

Unknown Speaker  18:07 

And, and clothes can be a great conversation starter. That's one of the things that I use clothes for where I can interact with someone and say, Oh, I love the color that you're wearing, or I love the you know, the way you've put that together or that's a fantastic jacket, or did you get that from? I can have that conversation with any stranger anytime of the day? And once they've answered that question I've gotten in to then move on to something else because I know that I've, I have opened the conversation on a positive note, and they feel noticed and they feel complimented, who doesn't like that? And then I can carry on talking. And so you know, in these times where we're looking to make authentic connections with people clothes, give us that in so When we know that our clothes have that power, the choices we make to get dressed can become purposeful. And so we can, I would say to anybody who's singing Yeah, but how do I start that? Okay? So create a capsule wardrobe for yourself so that you have a minimum of clothes that you know work. So you might have something that works on your bottom half, whatever it would be trousers or skirt, jeans, sort of maxi dress, maxi skirt, whatever it is that you actually think, yeah, I'm safe with this. This is really comfortable. It has the waistband that I need. I'm going to look for more of this type of garment. And I'm just explaining this in a very simple way. So that then you can say to yourself now on the top because this is what draws everybody's attention to my face and my expression and this is how I will communicate my my inner self through my face and my mood and my eyes. So the top that I want to wear, I want to give people a sense that I am optimistic. So I might choose something for men It can be as simple as a block color shirt or polo shirt or piece of knitwear. But similarly if you really like your gums guys, you know, you know you can style it up with much more than that. My husband loves big fabric, colorful scarves, big sways the fabric and he often gets women commenting about oh, that's really lovely color. I don't think I've seen a man wearing magenta for a long time and he's, you can talk all the way to work if he's sitting on the tube for instance, you know, based on his choices scarf in the morning. But it's the same for women in that when I'm sort of looking at people I don't know I am, I make connections with people through feeling that their clothes are an invitation to me to make a connection. So it can be as simple as keeping sort of the bottom half, plain and simple, but then choosing garments that allow you to talk about what an optimistic person you are, what an open minded person you are through your choice of color or pattern. And then the small details on clothing Never underestimate just the small things like for women as sort of lace insert or some specific sort of focus or detail pattern. necklines are a vital necklines give us a sense of that person emerging. From the clouds and proportions, you know where the garment ends on your body, it may be that actually especially if you are spending a big sort of part of your time sitting down that you don't want the government to sort of wrinkle up around your tummy and hips and you do choose to get a shortened because gives you a much straighter line all these things are choices. And most people if they feel I don't know if I'm confident to make choices about that,

 

Unknown Speaker  22:38 

we'll have a friend who is

 

Unknown Speaker  22:42 

and is very happy to say that suits you and this is why that suits you that doesn't and that looks good on you. But the sleeves need shortening or so it's one of those things that you know, we we can if we choose Bring center into the center of our lives and get better at it. I've probably gone on at length there, haven't I but you know, you did ask a clothes enthusiast question that I just couldn't. I couldn't. I could carry on to the next hour, if you will.

 

Unknown Speaker  23:19 

best not to

 

Unknown Speaker  23:23 

know, but it's all great. And there's lots and lots of ideas and tips that you've just spoken about. And that's something that I do try to do is put something that's a little bit quirky somewhere, not when we're in lockdown and, you know, sitting in my garden, yeah, I think it's really important to just think about an item that can express you. Yes,

 

Unknown Speaker  23:49 

there are also studies that show that not only do we convey to other people information about ourselves through our clothing, but we can actually affect our own mood and our own brain cognitions because of our it's the sort of jewel actions of our perception of that garment and the wearing of it so that when we put something on that we associate with, right, I'm going to be doing some meetings today or I'm going to be speaking someone on FaceTime or on zoom. This has always been a great top for me. You know, I love the way I look in it. It looks quite You know, it has a sort of executive feel to it. It has a nice fit to it. But we it's like an athlete putting on their gear. It's like a doctor putting on his lab coat. A policeman. Look at that, that sexism there a doctor putting on his lab coat

 

Unknown Speaker  24:58 

or putting on their lab coat runs deep doesn't it?

 

Unknown Speaker  25:03 

Does biases, I'm gonna take myself off and smack my bottom now.

 

Unknown Speaker  25:10 

That sounds

 

Unknown Speaker  25:14 

you know, a police officer putting on her uniform there we are with writing it. You know we perceive ourselves to be when we're in that type of clothing we perceive ourselves to be more effective than we would if we were just sat there in our pajamas and it's called enclosed cognition. And it is a you know, it is a psychological finding that actually putting something on that we have previously felt good in will work its magic when we put it on again. And that's why I think of my club, my friends, my closest friends. My friends aren't close my clothes are friends.

 

Unknown Speaker  25:59 

So cross my fingers. Could something as simple as having a favorite hat or a favorite scarf, make that difference?

 

Unknown Speaker  26:09 

Yes, there. There are also other psychological concepts called essentialism, which is where because of the story of that garment, like it might be, as you say, a favorite scarf. It's bought as good luck in the past, it might have been a special gift. It might have been, you know, passed down to us from a much loved relative that we imbue that's that special garment, let's say it's a scarf with the qualities of those experiences or that person that has passed it down to us. And so when we wrap ourselves in it, we feel automatically we take on some of that understanding. I mean, a good example for me is you know, maybe to give it is my Husband travels a lot. And he's aware a lot. He's a documentary filmmaker. And not all the time but you know sometimes when I just feel Oh, I wish you were here What a horrible day it's been today. I just wish you were here. I will put his jumper on in the evening and making be there you know, it's it's it's a it's just a god what a golden but it makes me feel better.

 

Unknown Speaker  27:27 

That's how.

 

Unknown Speaker  27:30 

Yeah, interesting. It's exciting. I also, I definitely concur with everything you've said. I mean, I know that if I'm in my pajamas

 

Unknown Speaker  27:43 

and I spent a lot of time in my PJs

 

Unknown Speaker  27:47 

and I decided that I'm going to speak to people. I am not nearly as effective as when I have put some lip here on and put my shirt on or whatever. I'm going to On So, you know I've experienced it. Yeah. And I've experienced deciding to wear a yellow top for the purpose of lifting my mood. Yeah.

 

Unknown Speaker  28:12 

And everybody else's around you people love bright color. And I bet you've you know if you have connected with people I bet that they have gone Whoa, what a bright color. So you know, it's like it's it lifts us all, doesn't it? The other thing because I was looking up, which I wasn't I wasn't surprised to learn but I didn't think about it. And yet, I do do it for that because I did it coming to talk to you. I put some my favorite perfume on to talk to you. And I did it to kind of sharpen my mind that I was talking about image. And that was one of the things that came up for both men and women. Is that fragrance that that they like not just any old frequency not just something that they got given for Christmas and it's like, but that they have taken the time to you know to choose and like and that again that fragrance is something that they have worn on other occasions so putting it on feel celebrate tree and putting it on film fills us a recognition of a special sense of self that that also both in men and women was was high up on the list of things that makes us feel better.

 

Unknown Speaker  29:39 

It's really interesting and it's definitely not something that I've ever considered.

 

Unknown Speaker  29:44 

Oh, wow, there you go. So yeah,

 

Unknown Speaker  29:47 

I i think that

 

Unknown Speaker  29:49 

you know, the the feeling really of connecting with ourselves taking time to be mindful of the body that we're in, and the, you know, the interaction that we're going to have. And the way we want to people to see us is, you know, maybe something that really would only take a few minutes each day as we were cleaning it. But usually we're not mindful. So we're cleaning our teeth thinking I gotta take the bins out and Oh, God, I didn't make that phone call. You know, your anything? Yeah. But actually doing that, when you clean your teeth and thinking I'm, I'm really looking forward to celebrating myself today.

 

Unknown Speaker  30:38 

You don't have to have a reason.

 

Unknown Speaker  30:40 

You know, we all are out, you know, most important relationship will ever have is the one we have with ourselves. I say that to my daughters all the time, a sick of it.

 

Unknown Speaker  30:50 

So try I love that idea of celebrating ourselves, and just each day telling ourselves that's what we're going to do. Yeah, let's celebrate. ourselves and celebrate what we can do. Yes, absolutely. And what we are going to do,

 

Unknown Speaker  31:06 

one of the things I think COVID might have given so many of us is a sense of, we don't have to be out there in the world making a big noise, being at home, as we all are, and ringing people up to say, how are you?

 

Unknown Speaker  31:27 

And, you know, thinking about the things that we can feel grateful for, and anybody in it well, for many

 

Unknown Speaker  31:36 

of us in the industrialized world, when we look at the way this has impacted people in very low income development, developing countries, you know, for them, it's a matter of, you know, the average person has got less than one pound in savings in many of the developing countries, so they just don't have any buffer. Wages are being withheld by industrialized countries, certainly in the fashion industry. Just a little bugbear and we are talking about close so I'm just gonna broaden that is, you know, certainly what I'm seeing in my industry at the moment is lots of young designers, more businesses, all turning over their studios, you know, just going in there on their own sewing masks, sewing peepee gear, sewing scrubs, I think sitting at home and recognizing what we do have and what we can do from our homes, to be of service to others and to keep things going. You know, that. For me, that's been a huge time for for mindfulness and bringing up people that I wouldn't normally you know, normally find the call to bring up

 

Unknown Speaker  32:56 

and, you know, we're all incredibly when we become mind for, you know, we get a sense of what we really can do.

 

Unknown Speaker  33:06 

I think that's, that's got to be the sort of key takeaway from all of this is to spend that time and be mindful about the decisions that you're making. Absolutely, to enhance your day and to enhance other people's days. Yes, when we're talking when we're talking remotely or on video, or whatever it might be. It clouds are so powerful.

 

Unknown Speaker  33:34 

And they are and, and I think people often make an assumption that something is insignificant and superficial as clothing, is has, you know, very little to contribute. And I think that's the beauty of it as well, is that when you realize that it really is that simple. To make a choice that, uh, speaks to others in a positive way, that that's very empowering, you know, in itself, I would, I would love to see a situation in which clothing was

 

Unknown Speaker  34:16 

de gendered.

 

Unknown Speaker  34:18 

So that, you know, many of us who sort of exist on the spectrum of what it is to be human, don't feel that we have to exist in the polar sort of extremes hyper feminine, hyper masculine. You know, certainly I move around in communities where people human, use clothes in a very different way. So, like fashion shows that I've been to have been put together by, for instance, the trans community, who have, you know, who rely upon closing to help people identify them in the way that They want to be identified. But I've also worked with you know, I worked with one man who was a crossdresser, who was a cisgender sort of heterosexual male, but who felt very restrained by being kind of restricted to a life that was a, you know, an and an expression that was so limiting. And so for him being able to move around freely in female clothes was very liberating. I think Grayson Perry is a very interesting human being,

 

Unknown Speaker  35:41 

that's how I was thinking, Oh, yeah,

 

Unknown Speaker  35:42 

the greatest in Paris. Because actually, you know, what we often have is, you know, clothes get used as uniforms just for gender. So if you step out of your gender uniform, you're somehow

 

Unknown Speaker  35:57 

you know,

 

Unknown Speaker  35:59 

doing the wrong thing. You know, there could be some very extreme kind of judgments made on men, for instance, who would choose to dress in a more feminine way. But I've I've seen the power of clothing in other ways to having worked with people who have experienced childhood trauma and who want to dress in a certain way that you know where clothing becomes a comfort blanket and armor in the same way wanting to know how to use clothing to help them feel protected and for their own self concept. You know, self concept is what we think about ourselves and self image is how we present ourselves and you know, the two are, you know, two very important elements of, you know, what leads us to make that choice and to pull something off the, the rail to buy or to wear.

 

Unknown Speaker  36:58 

So, lots of it is What is going on psychologically that is putting you down a certain route and informing some of the decisions.

 

Unknown Speaker  37:11 

Yeah conditioning and perception of self sort of learned. rules about how we may appear

 

Unknown Speaker  37:20 

in a mood varies from day to day. No, but we do have societal rules which in in certain places, you know, where there are sort of faith beliefs or membership beliefs to certain ways of thinking. The rules get very strict and can be very repressive. But I would say that even when we look at gender and the way in which you know, especially little boys, express interest in women's clothes and girls clothes in, in beautiful fabrics in colors, In soft sort of textural feelings and are denied that experience because of society's expectations of what masculinity must, you know, conform to certainly think, as young girls have more of an opportunity to experience themselves in football kits and filthy jeans and ballerina outfits without anybody making judgments, but not talking to moms who say that, you know, they they're worried that somehow their sons will be well received threats if they take those choices outside of the house. And they're not wrong. Yeah.

 

Unknown Speaker  38:50 

No, I think I think from those two boys perspective, I think it is very, very limiting and why would they not be Absolutely excited by the prospect of a girl's clothing and velvet or lace or flounce in us or whatever it might be. You cannot you can totally understand it.

 

Unknown Speaker  39:14 

Yeah, absolutely. And why they just wouldn't want to wear that whenever. And, you know, but these these kind of we have strict societal rules about that, don't worry. So clothing, you know, just coming back to how powerful clothing can be. How liberating and how restrictive. You know, it's all in our perceptions, isn't it?

 

Unknown Speaker  39:40 

Yeah, and I think we've got it is a TAS or request to use that close to help with everything that we're feeling as a barrier.

 

Unknown Speaker  39:54 

There's that and i and i think that there is a job to be done by corporations who You know, we touched on it at the beginning of this talk who are clearly looking at markets that they would like to address. And if they do it well enough, then you know, that means they are providing a good service. But, you know, my thing is always to encourage them to do it from nearly a human inclusivity perspective, is that, you know, we are all different and that it can be really, really

 

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