Managers vs. Makers - a podcast by The Q Word Podcast

Nyssa and Lisa review Paul Graham's classic productivity argument, and reframe it in the context of hospital employees, where the administration (a.k.a. managers) and the boots-on-the-ground medical personnel, specifically nurses (a.k.a. makers), are often at odds because of their wildly divergent schedules.  So how is a 9-5, M-F management team supposed to train, meet with, evaluate, and develop an everything *but* 9-5, M-F nursing and hospital staff?