535. Michelle Drapkin, Research-based Approaches to Driving Change - a podcast by Will Bachman

Show Notes:

In this episode of Unleashed, Dr. Michelle Drapkin,  author of The Motivational Interviewing Path to Personal Change: The Essential Workbook for Creating the Life You Want, discusses her book and her work as a Board Certified Clinical Psychologist and behavioral scientist, focusing on cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). Michelle is known for her work at Johnson and Johnson and the Veterans Administration, and she shares science-based techniques on how to change behaviors beyond intuition or folk knowledge. 

CBT and Motivation 

Michelle explains cognitive behavioral therapy and her motivational interview technique. Her area of focus within psychology is the common sense approach of using intrinsic motivation to drive behavior change that aligns with an individual's values and goals. She also emphasizes the importance of aligning these values and goals with the context of the organization. Michelle addresses myths about what motivates people and how to overcome them. One myth is that simply telling people what to do is enough, but it's not always the case and doesn’t always endure.  She also discusses the importance of fostering a supportive environment and setting clear expectations. She believes that a supportive environment can help individuals feel more comfortable and confident in their decisions, leading to more effective behavior change. 

Discussing the McKinsey Change Model

Will and Michelle discuss the McKinsey change model, which consists of four parts: understanding and skills, commitment, leadership modeling, and accountability. They agree the McKinsey model is mostly right, but Michelle also mentions the missing motivation component. She talks about the Combi model, which combines capability, opportunity, and motivation to achieve behavior change. However, the accountability mechanism and measurement are missing in the McKinsey model. She offers an example to prove the point. She suggests that the McKinsey model might not be the best fit for organizations, as it may not be suitable for adopting new habits or habits that require a different approach. She suggests using motivational interviewing, which is a more compassionate and empathic approach that helps people connect with their internal intrinsic motivation to change. 

Michelle explains what motivational interviewing is and how it was developed 40 years ago as an alternative to confrontational approaches in the addictions field. It is a gentle, compassionate approach that meets someone where they are at and helps them connect with their internal intrinsic motivation to change. By using motivational interviewing, organizations can help individuals change behaviors for themselves or at least for their own benefit. 

Michelle talks about the importance of self-compassion, the best-self,  and various exercises and strategies for enhancing team alignment and organizational effectiveness. She suggests exercises on how to connect with the best-self and emphasizes the importance of motivational interviewing in behavior change, as it encourages people to talk about their reasons for change and commitment to change. This has been scientifically proven to result in the change.

How to Prioritize Values 

She discusses the importance of prioritizing values, which can be challenging to identify. She suggests that individuals should first identify their values and then narrow them down to about 10, and then prioritize one value. This offers a map to their North star(s). These are the building block to purpose, and 

helps in making decisions about how to manage competing values and navigate conflicts. 

She talks about the importance of recognizing and valuing different aspects of an individual's life, such as their time and family, and how they can prioritize these aspects. They emphasize the importance of understanding and valuing different aspects of oneself to better understand and manage competing values. By focusing on positive experiences and addressing barriers, individuals can become more likely to make changes and improve their overall well-being.

Michelle talks about chapter two in her book which focuses on finding their why which leads to the what. She helps them identify and prioritize what they want to focus on driving towards before identifying what needs to change. She moves on to explain how she motivates change and introduces the process to consolidate motivation to make change and then commit to the action. She stresses that this approach is not telling people why they should, convincing, persuading or cheerleading.

What Is Motivational Interviewing 

The concept of motivational interviewing (MI) and its four components: focusing on motivation, consolidating motivation, consolidating commitment, and empowering employees. MI is different from other approaches as it is not persuasive but rather evokes motivation from inside the individual. It is important to consider the individual's needs and desires when making changes, as well as their ability and skills to achieve the change. MI can be applied to various settings, such as clinical settings or organizations where an individual is nested within an organization. 

The spirit of MI, which includes compassion, acceptance of autonomy, partnership, and empowerment, is crucial to understand. MI emphasizes the importance of recognizing that everyone is their own person with their own background. This is especially important in an organization where diversity and inclusion are becoming more important. By helping employees change in a way that aligns with their values and goals, leaders can help them improve, or find a new role, or exit the organization gracefully. MI can be complicated, but it can be done by being collaborative, and transparent in discussing the changes with team members. By focusing on specific areas of struggle and addressing any wiggle room, leaders can help employees find a solution that aligns with their values and goals. 

Michelle talks about why transformation efforts often fail within organizations. She mentions the assumption that change will just happen is not enough to enact change, and that communication with the team may be lacking or lack in engagement and empowerment. She also mentions common mistakes that leaders make when addressing the team. 

Timestamps:

00:05 What is cognitive behavioral therapy? 

06:40 Mckinsey’s four part model

09:31 Accountability mechanisms and motivation

14:07 How to determine your best self

19:09 Categorize your values into categories

21:50 Knowing your values and prioritizing

26:02 How to get started on making a change

31:23 Common characteristics of why transformation efforts fail

35:30 The importance of reflecting on your change

Links:

Book - https://a.co/d/4UbNT5h

Website - http://drdrapkin.com/

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelledrapkin/

CONTACT INFO:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelledrapkin/

 

Unleashed is produced by Umbrex, which has a mission of connecting independent management consultants with one another, creating opportunities for members to meet, build relationships, and share lessons learned. Learn more at www.umbrex.com.

 

Further episodes of Unleashed - How to Thrive as an Independent Professional

Further podcasts by Will Bachman

Website of Will Bachman