The Two Times We Read Don Quixote - a podcast by Roy H. Williams

Back in 2012, Ze Frank recorded a video I’ve contemplated for 11 years.

“What was it about?”

The hero and the clown.

“What made it so interesting that you’ve contemplated it for so long?”

The hero and the clown are the same person.

“You’re going to need to explain that to me.”

Here’s the transcript. Read it:

“Once I was lucky enough to take a class with the great clown teacher Giovanni Fusetti and one of the things that he talked about was the ancient idea of a hero. In the Greek myths, humans were subject to massive and unknown forces outside of their control. The whims of the gods – fickle gods – the gods of wind, waves and war, of luck, of love, of age and death. And from up on Mount Olympus, humans, humans look like little ants in the face of all these things. Giovanni said that despite these unknowns the hero pushes, pushes up against all these forces, fiercely pushes, shoulders back, despite the knowledge that he can’t win, that he will die in the end. The clown on the other hand, celebrates the falling, the failure, the absurdity of skipping along the bottom, the absurdity of trying at all…”

– Ze Frank, Unfair, June 22, 2012

“Okay, that was interesting. But I don’t see how you could still be thinking about that after 11 years.”

It answered a question for me.

“So, what was the question?”

How can one person look at Don Quixote and see a hero, and another person look at him and see a clown?

“Sometimes you think about some really weird crap. You know that, right?”

Yeah, I know that.

“You need to tie all this together for me.”

Cervantes wrote Don Quixote in 1605, and for the past 418 years, a person’s interpretation of that book has depended almost entirely on when and where they lived.

“For real?”

Yeah. For real.

“Why?”

Why, what?

“Why does it depend on when and where they lived?”

There are two specific times when people read the story of Don Quixote:

1. When a nation is pursuing a beautiful dream, the artists of that nation will paint, and sculpt, and write plays about heroes who fight against impossible odds. And they will cheer for Don Quixote, a visionary hero who saw beauty, justice, and honor in a common village girl who didn’t know he was alive.
2. Generations later, weary, disheartened, and brittle, those same nations will laugh at the absurdity of believing in heroes, and their comedians will mock the foolishness of relentless determination. And they will sneer at Don Quixote, a man who saw visions of beauty, justice and honor in a common village girl who didn’t know he was alive.

“So what does America believe about Don Quixote right now?”

Answer me this, Indy: Do you feel our nation is pursuing a beautiful dream? Or do you feel we are weary, disheartened, and brittle?

“Considering that everyone is suspicious of everyone right now, I’d say that we are the second one.”

Indy, I want you to research the founding fathers and find out whether they were reading Don Quixote when they were dreaming the dream of America, and fighting against impossible odds to escape from under the bootheel of King George.

“You want me to put it in the rabbit hole?”

That’s up to you, my little Beagle friend, but I’m hoping you will.

“I will under one condition.”

Name it.

“Tell me what brought this on. I need to know why you’re telling me all this.”

Do you remember what I told all those people who came to Austin to hear my final presentation of ‘Pendulum’ 11 years ago?

“I remember the tower was full, but you said a lot of things during those 2 days. Which of those things are you talking about?”

It was near the end, when someone asked me how soon I would be teaching ‘Pendulum’ again.

“I remember that you told them you wouldn’t be teaching it again for at least 10...

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